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BobKid

Maverick PCA Oct 19-20

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Not many signed up in the Yellow or White groups (8-10 each right now), so we're looking at some quality elbow room to play. 

 

Who else is playing there this weekend?

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I'm signed up to instruct/coach, there are only enough students to have one for the whole weekend. There will be so much open track, we're going to get spoiled rotten. I'm trying to use up the last of my RS4's so I can justify putting the new ones on before the next SCCA Time Trial, looks like I'll get the chance.

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1 hour ago, BRZ4Science said:

I'm signed up to instruct/coach, there are only enough students to have one for the whole weekend. There will be so much open track, we're going to get spoiled rotten. I'm trying to use up the last of my RS4's so I can justify putting the new ones on before the next SCCA Time Trial, looks like I'll get the chance.

Come out in the White and let me try to stay with the BRZ train

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26 minutes ago, BobKid said:

Come out in the White and let me try to stay with the BRZ train

Sure, I think Silvio is running slicks though so we won't be able to keep up with him. I think you're faster than I am at ECR, but we're close (I think 1:22.1 is still my fastest lap). I'll make you work for the point-by.

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35 minutes ago, BRZ4Science said:

Sure, I think Silvio is running slicks though so we won't be able to keep up with him. I think you're faster than I am at ECR, but we're close (I think 1:22.1 is still my fastest lap). I'll make you work for the point-by.

That'll work. I'm always faster in a chase, either as chaser or chasee

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3 hours ago, SAD said:

PCA won't allow Atoms!!! boo his!

You could always bring the vette. You’d just have to wear your jorts for the weekend. 

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hoping to get back up there soon -- but I'll be at MSR-C racing with PCA?

Why they have two events on the same weekend this close to each other is a mystery?

I'm surprised the Club Race isn't taking it on the chin without DE support.

Mike

 

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In.

I have a game plan to drop some time. I dropped 3/4 of second at event earlier this month and it feels like I'm on the verge of a breakthrough (he said hopefully). I'm hoping the cooler weather will let me bang out more laps without having to manage brakes/oil temps as much. It should at least offer more opportunity rather than that one golden lap before things are way too hot.

I feel like I've done the right thing at each corner a time or two, I need to start stringing them all together. Either that or I'm going to scare the crap out of myself (again). Had a "whoa buddy" moment in first session last time out and it took me all day to be FLATOUT from 4-13. Laugh out loud fast into 13. Video/data showed me my primary mistakes and what the physics can support. Now if I can combine that with a really good 4 like I know is possible, its gonna be a hoot.

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2 hours ago, El_Tortuga said:

In.

I have a game plan to drop some time. I dropped 3/4 of second at event earlier this month and it feels like I'm on the verge of a breakthrough (he said hopefully). I'm hoping the cooler weather will let me bang out more laps without having to manage brakes/oil temps as much. It should at least offer more opportunity rather than that one golden lap before things are way too hot.

I feel like I've done the right thing at each corner a time or two, I need to start stringing them all together. Either that or I'm going to scare the crap out of myself (again). Had a "whoa buddy" moment in first session last time out and it took me all day to be FLATOUT from 4-13. Laugh out loud fast into 13. Video/data showed me my primary mistakes and what the physics can support. Now if I can combine that with a really good 4 like I know is possible, its gonna be a hoot.

Yea, 4 through 13 is my focus area this time. I'm hesitant and waiting on the gas until I make 5 and it's costing me. 

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20 hours ago, BobKid said:

You could always bring the vette. You’d just have to wear your jorts for the weekend. 

have to get out my fanny-pack too.

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21 hours ago, BobKid said:

Yea, 4 through 13 is my focus area this time. I'm hesitant and waiting on the gas until I make 5 and it's costing me. 

My advice: Trust the car, start feeding it throttle at apex of 4 and let it float out to the edge/rumbles on exit, I get the car rotated as early as I can for T4...have long vision...eyes up / look where you want to go <--- that right there makes a HUGE improvement. Screenshot below.

T5-FullThrottle.thumb.jpg.ff07ae2a79c619f790e5e08bd31b5252.jpg

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On 10/18/2019 at 11:22 AM, Captain Buddha said:

My advice: Trust the car, start feeding it throttle at apex of 4 and let it float out to the edge/rumbles on exit, I get the car rotated as early as I can for T4...have long vision...eyes up / look where you want to go <--- that right there makes a HUGE improvement. Screenshot below.

T5-FullThrottle.thumb.jpg.ff07ae2a79c619f790e5e08bd31b5252.jpg

Thanks. Tried all kinds of lines through T5 this weekend, some with decent results and some scared the crap outta me. Found my car likes to be tight to T5 where others drift out to mid track around it.  If I do that my suspension unloads unevenly over the hump and I’m fighting to keep it nose first at 100+. 
 

I'm now full throttle by T4 apex and ease it to ~75% throttle around T5 apex, then mash it down the hill into the braking zone for T13.  I had one run where I forced myself to stay WOT from T4 all the way through T5 and into the braking zone at T13 and I still don't know how I kept it on the track.  Car was sideways braking/sliding into T13 and luckily it scrubbed just enough speed that it grabbed when I hit the gas and made it around the corner. It was fast as hell, but I doubt I could pull that off more than 1-2 times in 10 attempts. I did cut a whole second off my lap time doing that, but I won’t do it again without a full caged car or at least some aero for grip. 

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Bob - yeah, cage is your friend! What I've found so far about the run from T4 to T13...at least for my cars...they do not like uncertainty...meaning, either I've gotta charge it with aggressive driving/WFO or at least keep throttle held (even if not at WOT) to keep the car planted...very slow hands, don't do anything to unsettle the car, that equals bad results...I vector across the track (in a straight line) for braking, not parallel with the track, into T13, trail braking...rotate...throttle!

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On 10/18/2019 at 5:07 AM, SAD said:

have to get out my fanny-pack too.

I knew I was missing something when I track my C7Z!! LOL!!

What should I wear when I track the Grandpillac CTS-V?? You know, to complete the look?

Grandpillac-CTS-V.thumb.jpg.fd2c88b3d439c01f40ca363b8049091d.jpg

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4 hours ago, Captain Buddha said:

Bob - yeah, cage is your friend! What I've found so far about the run from T4 to T13...at least for my cars...they do not like uncertainty...meaning, either I've gotta charge it with aggressive driving/WFO or at least keep throttle held (even if not at WOT) to keep the car planted...very slow hands, don't do anything to unsettle the car, that equals bad results...I vector across the track (in a straight line) for braking, not parallel with the track, into T13, trail braking...rotate...throttle!

That’s pretty much my normal line into T13 now. If I try to get over parallel to the track I’ve still got side load at beginning of braking and my car wants to swap ends. So my visual target is the end of the curb and I brake in a straight line diagonally across the track towards that. Makes the turn sharper, but I can trail brake most of the way to mid loop and full throttle from there to T14. 

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1 hour ago, BobKid said:

That’s pretty much my normal line into T13 now. If I try to get over parallel to the track I’ve still got side load at beginning of braking and my car wants to swap ends. So my visual target is the end of the curb and I brake in a straight line diagonally across the track towards that. Makes the turn sharper, but I can trail brake most of the way to mid loop and full throttle from there to T14. 

I think there is plenty of time to get nose pointed straight after 2nd crest before braking (but holy hell you are charging in). #4 is key for lap time, but the biggest thing IMHO is that you CANNOT lift while going downhill in middle of the roller coaster. I'm not a fan of being that loose at triple digits. Only lift going uphill (and you don't need to). I started out with holding tight line throughout 5, but find it better for me to:

1) finish 4 wide left (leave a little margin inside the rumbles

2) work right side tires to mid-track seam before #5 turn-in

3) slow hands to bring nose in - looking LONG to #1 braking marker

4) swallow hard and keep the loud pedal planted. Car may move in the roller-coaster dip but doesn't go very far. Based on fellow coaches comments it makes for a good show. ;)

5) Brake late and trail hard to rotate into 13. You can use rotation to scrub a bunch of speed but be ready to get back on the gas for the canyon section. In any case, aim well inside the apex curbs and you'll come close. Most everyone misses wide as the road drops underneath you.

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I've tried multiple lines for *many* laps through T5...my favorite so far is staying all the way left...maybe even keeping half my tires on the track...LOL...moving right and then that minor rotation back to the left unsettles things for the car a bit...at least in the TA2...the Monte doesn't seem to care as much...as longs as its WFO! On track, off track, whatever....! LOL

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1 hour ago, El_Tortuga said:

I think there is plenty of time to get nose pointed straight after 2nd crest before braking (but holy hell you are charging in). #4 is key for lap time, but the biggest thing IMHO is that you CANNOT lift while going downhill in middle of the roller coaster. I'm not a fan of being that loose at triple digits. Only lift going uphill (and you don't need to). I started out with holding tight line throughout 5, but find it better for me to:

1) finish 4 wide left (leave a little margin inside the rumbles

2) work right side tires to mid-track seam before #5 turn-in

3) slow hands to bring nose in - looking LONG to #1 braking marker

4) swallow hard and keep the loud pedal planted. Car may move in the roller-coaster dip but doesn't go very far. Based on fellow coaches comments it makes for a good show. 😉

5) Brake late and trail hard to rotate into 13. You can use rotation to scrub a bunch of speed but be ready to get back on the gas for the canyon section. In any case, aim well inside the apex curbs and you'll come close. Most everyone misses wide as the road drops underneath you.

Like Brad, my car likes the left side. When I drift out to mid-track for 5, it's putting more side load on than my car's semi-trailing arm rear suspension can handle since both camber and toe change when it unloads. Tight inside minimizes the side load, but it does make the turn sharper. 

 

Going to play with different suspension settings next time to see if I can help myself some. I've been running it very loose so far as I learn the new track, and can probably crank up the compression and rebound quite a bit with the smooth surface there. 

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On 10/16/2019 at 1:09 PM, BRZ4Science said:

I'm signed up to instruct/coach, there are only enough students to have one for the whole weekend. There will be so much open track, we're going to get spoiled rotten. I'm trying to use up the last of my RS4's so I can justify putting the new ones on before the next SCCA Time Trial, looks like I'll get the chance.

Do they give you a price break?  I was curious on how these clubs bring in instructors

 

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6 minutes ago, Talley said:

Do they give you a price break?  I was curious on how these clubs bring in instructors

 

For most groups, instructors drive for free in exchange for instructing (they usually get lunch at each event and eventually a shirt to look official). The only group I instruct with that still charges is the SCCA Time Trials, but they still give a healthy discount to the coaches (they have fewer instructed groups, so if they let the coaches run for free they'd lose money at every event).

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10 minutes ago, BRZ4Science said:

For most groups, instructors drive for free in exchange for instructing (they usually get lunch at each event and eventually a shirt to look official). The only group I instruct with that still charges is the SCCA Time Trials, but they still give a healthy discount to the coaches (they have fewer instructed groups, so if they let the coaches run for free they'd lose money at every event).

This. May have to pay (reduced rate) at COTA too as the rent is too damn high.

Some days its a rewarding way to give back to the sport, a fun ride, and a free drive. Other days its a beat-down, all you can do to keep from barfing, asking yourself if its worth the beating and the risk, and if you have enough life insurance. More good days than bad.

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7 minutes ago, El_Tortuga said:

This. May have to pay (reduced rate) at COTA too as the rent is too damn high.

Some days its a rewarding way to give back to the sport, a fun ride, and a free drive. Other days its a beat-down, all you can do to keep from barfing, asking yourself if its worth the beating and the risk, and if you have enough life insurance. More good days than bad.

Ya, I'd love to be an instructor but I have this weird thing where I literally have to be the one driving period.  It could literally be through a drive through and I'm ready to barf.  But as long as I'm driving I'm good.  So I know I can never be an instructor

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3 hours ago, BobKid said:

Like Brad, my car likes the left side. When I drift out to mid-track for 5, it's putting more side load on than my car's semi-trailing arm rear suspension can handle since both camber and toe change when it unloads. Tight inside minimizes the side load, but it does make the turn sharper. 

 

Going to play with different suspension settings next time to see if I can help myself some. I've been running it very loose so far as I learn the new track, and can probably crank up the compression and rebound quite a bit with the smooth surface there. 

Interesting discussion. Good shades of gray discussion. Remember Brian Henderson's PCA classroom discussions? Greatness. He had a way of stimulating a reoccurring questioning and evolution of ones driving style and lines. Pure gold.

My current line of thinking is that coming back to mid-track allows me get more turning and pointing the nose done while coming up the hill and while the grip is good so you have to do less lateral work when the bottom drops out.

Sam (BRZ4Science) can stay tight and short lines as his grip >> power. Different approaches for different rides? More than 1 way to skin a cat? Interesting debate.

Could be wrong, but thinking the stick axle heavyweight is as much a challenge in the downhill section as anything. Brad gets it in the truck armed Monte too. Brute force and ackwardness FTW!!!! 

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13 minutes ago, Talley said:

Ya, I'd love to be an instructor but I have this weird thing where I literally have to be the one driving period.  It could literally be through a drive through and I'm ready to barf.  But as long as I'm driving I'm good.  So I know I can never be an instructor

Maybe. Maybe not. I have barfing tendencies when not driving, and its exacerbated by the need to look in the wrong places (drivers eyes, mirrors, etc) to be a good instructor/coach (2 different things). I am taking bonine when instructing and it helps. Some use ear patches too. Some tracks are better, some are worse.  Some cars with a lot of roll and poor visibility are tough. Just a few minutes of quiet recovery time between session is HUGE. Super grip and/or power can put me on tilt in a New York minute if the driver is rough. When you are with a driver you can trust, its a LOT of fun. Its really cool when you can see the connections being made and the lights coming on. Its this magic that brings me back.

In any case, work on you. With experience and progression you'll figure out if this is your game or other sports beacon.

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