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jp129

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Hello All,

My name is JP and I've been a long time lurker, but decided to sign up now that the S2000 track car is about to be finished! Wanted to say Hello to everyone and introduce myself properly. 

I've been racing CMRA for the past few years and tracking motorcycles for the past 7, so not unfamiliar with the track environment! Thinking about starting a family, so I'm retiring from moto racing and switching over to cars. I've done a handful of car track days in the past 12 years, but far and few in between.

Goal is to develop my skills as a driver to eventually go racing if that's something I end up enjoying. 

I would like to get to know some of the people here and I would also be greatly appreciative if the MSRH members would be willing to extend a guest pass to me in the near future. 

Cheers!

JP

P.S. Added some pics for effect 🙂 

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Howdy, howdy! I'm happy to have you out on a member day. Not sure when I'm going to be out next, though as I tend not to do anything during the summer. S2K is a great car to start with!

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Thank you, Robert! Since you're a fellow S2K owner, I'd be happy to take any pointers you have!

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Howdy and welcome!

Not an MSRH member, but I leave near the track and race with SCCA, CVAR, WRL (occasionally) and some of the local stuff at MSRH when opportunity and stars align.  When you're ready to dip your toes into racing, I'll be happy to help out, or even come by the track during a race day and I'll show you around and walk you through how things go.  The "procedure" of racing seems a little daunting at first when you read the rule book and the list of things to do prior to the race, but in the end it's not much more hassle than a track day.

Depending on the class you run in the S2000, we'll likely wind up on track at the same time since it's a small bore car and most of them run together, so we'll probably end up sharing the track at some point.  Come on down to a club race and I'll show ya around.

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Welcome from a fellow S2000 owner. there are many of us on this board and are always happy to give pointers regarding car setup and track hacks 😉

 

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Huge mistake! Stick with CMRA! 😉 

 

fellow S owner and MSRH member here, feel free to jump on any day I’m out.

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Thank you for the warm welcomes! I'll definitely take you up on the offers.

Seems like there's a fair number of S2000 owners, would love to hear your setup suggestions. 

Since I'm starting out, I'm not focused on setup as much as I am on skill building, but here's my base line for reference. Very familiar with S2000s as I've had my street car since 2003.

AP1 S2000 Chassis - Stripped out/Non road driven

Suspension:

Koni Yellow shocks - FR 400lb/in - RR 300lb/in springs

Stock ride height - Didn't want to change suspension geometry and add more variances at this point while I'm still learning

Full spherical bushings 

Sway bar: Front AP1 - Rear AP2

AP2V1 17" wheels - Bridgestone Potenza S04 - 215/245 

Alignment:

Front

Camber: -1.7 (max NEG camber I was able to get out at stock ride height - after I get some seat time, I'll most likely lower the car some and add RCAs to correct geo and add more NEG camber adj.)

Caster: 6.2

Toe: 0.00

Rear

Camber: -2.0

Toe: -0.10

Total toe: -0.20

Brakes:

-PowerStop PSA829 front pads/OEM rear pads

-Centric premium blanks

-Stop tech SS lines

-No dust shields/no ducting

 

Looking for neutral handling characteristics while I learn better car control, build skills, and figure out driving style/preferences. What do you guys think?

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Ah, an R6, I've always been partial to 600's.  God superbikes are a hoot but as I got older I didn't want to throw myself on the ground at high speeds.  So I got an NSR50 and found out I didn't like throwing myself on the ground at slow speeds either.  Cars aren't near the rush but still pretty fun.  Before doing a member day I'd suggest doing a couple TDE events.  I had a few bad bike habits that needed fixing.

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On 6/21/2019 at 5:55 PM, jp129 said:

Thank you for the warm welcomes! I'll definitely take you up on the offers.

Seems like there's a fair number of S2000 owners, would love to hear your setup suggestions. 

Since I'm starting out, I'm not focused on setup as much as I am on skill building, but here's my base line for reference. Very familiar with S2000s as I've had my street car since 2003.

AP1 S2000 Chassis - Stripped out/Non road driven

Suspension:

Koni Yellow shocks - FR 400lb/in - RR 300lb/in springs

Stock ride height - Didn't want to change suspension geometry and add more variances at this point while I'm still learning

Full spherical bushings 

Sway bar: Front AP1 - Rear AP2

AP2V1 17" wheels - Bridgestone Potenza S04 - 215/245 

Alignment:

Front

Camber: -1.7 (max NEG camber I was able to get out at stock ride height - after I get some seat time, I'll most likely lower the car some and add RCAs to correct geo and add more NEG camber adj.)

Caster: 6.2

Toe: 0.00

Rear

Camber: -2.0

Toe: -0.10

Total toe: -0.20

Brakes:

-PowerStop PSA829 front pads/OEM rear pads

-Centric premium blanks

-Stop tech SS lines

-No dust shields/no ducting

 

Looking for neutral handling characteristics while I learn better car control, build skills, and figure out driving style/preferences. What do you guys think?

Looks like you're on the right track for a fairly stock car. the only thing that might need upgrading (eventually as you improve) are the brake pads. I'm not familiar with these pads, but they should be OK for novice abuse. Since the car is not street driven, full-on track pads shouldn't be out of the question. There are several brake pad threads on this forum so you can search to find more info about what people are using. I've used Carbotech and switched to hawk, I've also heard good things about Raybestos.

 

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Thank you for the feedback.

I've never used the PowerStop PSA pads either, but they seem well regarded in some tracking circles. They're marketed as a track day pad that's pretty forgiving. I'll keep the other recommendations in mind if these don't work out.

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On 7/2/2019 at 12:00 PM, jp129 said:

Thank you for the feedback.

I've never used the PowerStop PSA pads either, but they seem well regarded in some tracking circles. They're marketed as a track day pad that's pretty forgiving. I'll keep the other recommendations in mind if these don't work out.

Looks great. You nailed it: seat time before all else and throw in mods slowly...

 

TBH eventually you will want to go to a non-stagger wheel setup from a consumables stand point (plus a square setup on the S makes it an even bigger joy to drive but again will throw more variables in like needing to alter front sway stiffness etc etc). I’m not an AP1 owner but I know a few items to eventually address are the retainers and rear “dynamic” toe under compression. 

 

Last weekend in July looks open - let’s do it.

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9 hours ago, Hollywood said:

Looks great. You nailed it: seat time before all else and throw in mods slowly...

 

TBH eventually you will want to go to a non-stagger wheel setup from a consumables stand point (plus a square setup on the S makes it an even bigger joy to drive but again will throw more variables in like needing to alter front sway stiffness etc etc). I’m not an AP1 owner but I know a few items to eventually address are the retainers and rear “dynamic” toe under compression. 

 

Last weekend in July looks open - let’s do it.

Noted, I notice a lot of the faster drivers end up with a square setup and it does make sense from a consumable stand point as you mentioned. Do you find that aero is needed to make a square setup work well or does altering suspension sufficient enough? 

 

If you're open for the last weekend in July, I'd love to join as a guest and get some more feedback from ya!

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On 7/4/2019 at 10:05 PM, jp129 said:

Noted, I notice a lot of the faster drivers end up with a square setup and it does make sense from a consumable stand point as you mentioned. Do you find that aero is needed to make a square setup work well or does altering suspension sufficient enough? 

You'll definitely go square if you dabble in competition. Even in autocross it dominates the STR setup. No aero necessary. If anything all you'll really need is a fender roll. Some like it the way it is, others throw a stiffer front bar to balance out the new found abundant level of grip at the front 😁

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S2000 checking in, welcome and congrats! Look forward to seeing you on track in the near future. 

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Guys, 

Can you help me understand my tire wear? I just did a day at Harris Hill CW and the wear on my front tires look peculiar. Trailing edge seems to be feathered/lifting. I don't know much about reading auto tire wear as I am motorcycle tires...

Tire pressures were 35 PSI hot both front and rear. Rears don't look near as bad.

Any thoughts? I did not adjust pressures or broke out the pyrometer, since I just wanted to work on myself. Lap times were in the high 1:33-1:34s in the afternoon. 

 

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Rear tire has similar characteristics, just less pronounced 

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I see similar feathering on my tires. My assumption has always been that it's the result of longitudinal forces being vastly different (way more braking force than accelerating). Seems especially noticeable when the tires are new, ie lots of tread block depth to be squirming around.

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Yep, that's normal wear on a treaded tire.  you're seeing that because the tread blocks deform under load and the trailing edge doesn't have as much force on the pavement since there's now an air gap behind it where the rest of the tread block us being pushed into pavement, so doesn't wear as much as the leading edge and center of the block.

If I had to make a guess at anything, I'd say there's a tad bit of understeer and maybe some over-driving causing it.  i.e. coasting into the corner with lots of steering input because you didn't slow enough prior to entry.   that's what causes the most heavy wear on front tires-- UNLESS you're in a FWD car and then it's normal and not much you can do but rotate tires regularly.

the fix for that is to slow down a bit more prior to corner entry and do more turning with the gas pedal, with less input on the steering wheel.   front tires then do less work and wear less.  lap times should also decrease as you're accelerating through the turn instead of scrubbing speed.

 

but that's just a 10 sec analysis by looking at a photo of some tires on the interwebs.  I may be completely off base. :)

 

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dang... i know zero about tires

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13 hours ago, Matt93SE said:

Yep, that's normal wear on a treaded tire.  you're seeing that because the tread blocks deform under load and the trailing edge doesn't have as much force on the pavement since there's now an air gap behind it where the rest of the tread block us being pushed into pavement, so doesn't wear as much as the leading edge and center of the block.

If I had to make a guess at anything, I'd say there's a tad bit of understeer and maybe some over-driving causing it.  i.e. coasting into the corner with lots of steering input because you didn't slow enough prior to entry.   that's what causes the most heavy wear on front tires-- UNLESS you're in a FWD car and then it's normal and not much you can do but rotate tires regularly.

the fix for that is to slow down a bit more prior to corner entry and do more turning with the gas pedal, with less input on the steering wheel.   front tires then do less work and wear less.  lap times should also decrease as you're accelerating through the turn instead of scrubbing speed.

 

but that's just a 10 sec analysis by looking at a photo of some tires on the interwebs.  I may be completely off base. 🙂

 

 

TL;DR That wear is pretty normal 😄

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Thank you for the feedback guys!

@Matt93SE - Your feedback is pretty accurate. My instructor provided feedback that I should work on my trail braking transition in 2 the slow haripins where I was slightly over driving and causing some understeer.

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Well I'm glad I can read tires on the interwebs.   now if only I could read tires on my daughter's kart and figure out what she's doing wrong!

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Tires cold....no fun.....go fast and then.....Tires hot...stuff happens....slip angle....angle of the dangle....hit throttle....wheeeee!!!!! Tread fly off.....marbles....don't plan in marbles.....marbles bad.....tires hot.....good stuff.....

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