Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
aCab

Cresson Notes?

Recommended Posts

Coming fresh off a weekend at TWS, I'm pumped for my next event at MSR Cresson in March with NASA. I'd love to get some insights on notes like there are in the TWS section. I think it'd get me a lot more comfortable with the track before I even get there. It's the 1.7 CCW configuration. Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post

Starting with rattlesnake, this is a heavy trailbraking turn for me. Its uphill a bit so take advantage of that. I tap the brakes after the transition from the right turn (coming into rattlesnake) to the left to settle the car. Then its about finding a comfortable speed through the triangle of death. Get that turn wrong and you end up in the tire barrier. Then you'll want to be just a couple feet to the right of the middle of the track. Use the middle seam as a guide to trailbrake into turn 6. Going off here is bad. Super rough. Then full throttle down the hill if you've got the gonads. Setup the car so the right side tires kiss the rumble strip. Turn 7 is pretty easy once you get the car settled. The next turn is the uphill hairpin. It's just slow. Get the power down as best as you can. Power up to the leap of faith. This is a tricky turn to get right. There is a white stripe on the pavement that you can use. Keep the right tires just inside that stripe. Don't transfer weight till after the blind crest. Then power down the hill. You can brake pretty late because the braking zone is uphill. Now you're in the toilet bowl. Tricky turn to get right. You wanna hold the inside, the track will go away from you and then come back. Hit the second apex and power into ten. Turn 10 is heaving trailbrake turn. You want to get the car setup to the far right of the track and start angling the car into the turn while still under power then brake. Think of the turn as a "V". Then power through the transition to the old track and stay track right for ricochet. Start your braking at the top of the hill, rotate the car and stay on the throttle through the turn. If you lift, it ain't gonna be pretty, good runoff though if you do. That leads into little bend. Pretty easy turn. Same with buzzard's neck. Then get ready for the horseshoe/boot hill/tombstone complex. They can be treated as one turn. finally big bend. Scrub off some speed and hold on! Its a fast sweeper with a ton of track on corner exit and smooth runoff if you get it wrong, which is kinda hard to do your first time.

 

USE AT YOUR OWN RISK! LOL

Share this post


Link to post

Thanks!

 

I'll need to find a Turn # sheet with names to make the mental picture -- easier to count corners than remember all the names :-)

(until you F-up then forget what turn # your on :-)

 

I'm sure I'll suck just until about the point I put the car on the trailer -- then be thinking all the way back to Austin wishing I had a few more 

runs -- because I was just getting it!

 

m

Share this post


Link to post

Left right left right left right left right up down, blind blind, up down left right

Share this post


Link to post

Left right left right left right left right up down, blind blind, up down left right

 

Priceless

Share this post


Link to post

Left right left right left right left right up down, blind blind, up down left right

B A Start?

Share this post


Link to post

dfdub's notes are great but hard to understand if you've never seen the track; do Saturday then come back and re-read that and you'll find it very helpful.

Share this post


Link to post

dfdub's notes are great but hard to understand if you've never seen the track; do Saturday then come back and re-read that and you'll find it very helpful.

 

It's a complicated track. It might be harder to learn than COTA. I dunno, just a guess. I've driven probably 100 laps or more and I still can't get all of the corners right in one lap. But maybe that's just an indication of how bad a driver I am.  :wink:

Share this post


Link to post

It's a complicated track. It might be harder to learn than COTA. I dunno, just a guess. I've driven probably 100 laps or more and I still can't get all of the corners right in one lap. But maybe that's just an indication of how bad a driver I am.  :wink:

 

I believe you are correct and this it is by far the most technical track that we have in Texas. The 3.1 has a lot of turns and not a single one is a 'standard' turn. It's a lot of fun but easy to learn or instruct!

 

robert

Share this post


Link to post

Oh. I remembered I made a video with notes on it:

 

 

robert

 

While I appreciated the previous humor --- this is fantastic and just what I was hoping to find.

 

thx,

 

mike

Share this post


Link to post

The 3.1 was my 2nd track day ever...1st was ECR. It took me awhile to learn the 3.1 - glad I did...it is FUN!!!

Share this post


Link to post

PS. If it rains, disregard everything I said, and take plenty of video so we can see all your spins!  :laugh:

Share this post


Link to post

Last time I was on track in September in North Texas it rained 2"/hr .... 

 

Nothing like wheel to wheel on ice skates :-)  With the amount of water running down the track off the Nascar 3 & 4 I thought the car would be washed away like a flash flood.

 

When you weren't pushing off the track you were loose as hell.  Saw a few 80MPH hydro slides through the infield.... totally sketch.

 

At one point they actually red flagged the race  -- they didn't care about the rain and drivers -- just the corner workers & lightning :-0 !!!

 

Our driver happened to be in the pits trying to defog the windshield just as the red flag hit.

 

We weren't allowed to touch the driver or the car -- so we tossed him an umbrella!

 

 

post-247-0-06139300-1408061843_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post

I believe you are correct and this it is by far the most technical track that we have in Texas. The 3.1 has a lot of turns and not a single one is a 'standard' turn. It's a lot of fun but easy to learn or instruct!

 

robert

I think the 3.1 is super hard to instruct on. Once a student messes up one corner...there's another...another...another. I'm more worn out instructing here than anywhere else.

 

The 3.1 is by far the most challenging track to just learn. Not even talking about driving it really fast.

Share this post


Link to post

I think the 3.1 is super hard to instruct on.

 

Er, I left a key word out... "It's a lot of fun but NOT easy to learn or instruct!" Important word, heh.

 

robert

Share this post


Link to post

You guys aren't inspiring confidence :-)

 

But I can totally see if you blow a corner -- it might take a while to regain your composure and line to pull things back together.

 

Looks a lot like a continual series of the Esses at COTA.  Mess up one of those and your hosed until at least T9/T10.

 

Mike

Share this post


Link to post

Borrowed notes:

 

Motorsport Ranch, Cresson, TX (MSR-C)
1.7 mile Counterclockwise (CCW) configuration

Map

Track_Layout_1_7.jpg

Line Notes (there are many different lines, we'll keep this generic and get into specific variations at various skill levels):


  • Rattlesnake:Starting on the straight headed into Rattlesnake, dive deep into the corner.  Don't hug the left edge, take a bit of a angled approach slightly to the right.  You brake much, much later than where you instinctively want to.  Rattlesnake is difficult to do well.  Remember to set the car's weight up front before turning, but be balanced through the turns. 
  • Wagon Wheel: float out wide to the right, hold it for a beat or two then begin your turn-in up the hill.  Look far up the hill and get on the throttle.

     

  • Ricochet:  Need some forward weight transfer to set the car before the turn in.  How you do this depends on your speed & skill level. See variations below.  Full throttle on the straight after Ricochet. Check your mirrors!

     

  • Little Bend: (Similar to the entry into Rattlesnake) start out left and approach slightly angled to the right.  Late braking and slightly lazy turn-in, aiming for a late apex.  On the straight after Little Bend, stay left, give a bit of full throttle, check your mirrors.

     

  • Buzzard Neck: right hander with uneven pavement in the braking zone.  Brake hard for the sharp right.  After the turn, let the car float naturally to the left. Don't pinch it to hold it to the right.  Swing back to the right to prepare for Horseshoe.

     

  • Horseshoe is an up-hill off-camber curve that requires a lot of power to be applied. The combination of these factors can cause some "stability control" systems to freak out and apply the brakes and cut power while you're trying to apply power.  The back half of Horseshoe resembles Wagon Wheel.  Once you've got it pointed up the hill, make sure to look far ahead and give it lots of throttle to climb up.

     

  • Boot Hill, To set up the turn, go wide right.  Use a lazy turn-in and DON'T clip the apex.  If you can stay a few feet away, it sets you up nicely for Tombstone.  As you exit Boot hill, you'll be at varying levels of throttle depending on speed and skill.  But, you can pretty much keep the wheel turned the same amount throughout the complex.

     

  • Tombstone: Coming out of Boot Hill, go wide to the right (not necessarily to the rumble strips) and look for your exit.  Early apex here is bad.  Aim for a late apex and apply full throttle when you know you've made it.  Full throttle on the straight. Check your mirrors.

     

  • Big Bend: Fast sweeper. This is the fastest corner on this configuration.  You need to lightly set the front of the car for turn-in, get on the power early.  The turn-in is lazy and should feel slow.  As you progress through the turn, linearly increase throttle.  Where you go full throttle may depend on your skill level, but the goal is to be on full throttle at the apex.  Gradually build your speed and confidence lap after lap; don't be a hero your first lap.  Full throttle at or after the apex.  Check your mirrors.  Head into Pits or keep on going.  Set up for Rattlesnake by heading to the left side of the track.  Don't force it; let it float.  Once you've hit your mark (you'll find your own mark based on speed) on the left, begin the approach to Rattlesnake by angling slightly to the right - just a small adjustment in your wrists on the wheel, and you'll end up about 1 car length from the left hand side curbing

Beginner Notes:

  • Learn the flags and mind the flag workers.
  • No shifting; drive the course in 3rd.  As you are more comfortable at speed, add 3-4 upshift after ricochet, 4-3 downshift before little bend, 3-4 upshift after Big Bend, 4-3 downshift before rattlesnake, not necessarily in that order.
  • Light lift or very light brake before turn-in at ricochet and Big Bend.  No lifting DURING the turn.
  • Practice Heel-Toe downshifts as you get comfortable
  • From the middle of Horseshoe through Tombstone is actually one big curve not multiple and the proper line means you set/turn the steering wheel once and hold it through the entire set.  Be looking far up the track and looking for your track out -- The car is going to go where you're looking.
  • The first curve into Rattlesnake off the long straight, there's a groove in the pavement that a beginner should practice planting the right-side front tire on and following it through the first curve to learn a good beginner entrance line.
  • There's a dip in the middle of Little Bend that sucks your car to the pavement if you hit the apex properly. If you're not feeling the dip then you're not on the best line.

Intermediate Notes

  • Mind your brakes -- As an intermediate driver you'll generally be going faster but won't have the confidence to carry that speed through the curves so you're going to be over-using your brakes
  • All downshifts should be heel-toe if car is equipped
  • Ricochet is a full-power-on curve with a slight lift (no brake) just before it to set the car up.
  • Begin trail braking on Little Bend, Buzzard's neck
  • Light brake before turn-in Big Bend
  • Potentially add 4-3-2 downshift or 4-2 downshift prior to Rattlesnake

 

Advanced Notes:

  • Consider using Left-foot braking
  • Increase the overlap between braking, turn-in, acceleration phases in all corners so as to attain the highest speed possible while achieving the desired slip angle.
  • Rattlesnake:
    • At entry, trail brake in 3rd gear to get up the hill.  Turn up the hill and you should have a short straight line up, tap the brake (if you need to) and take 2nd gear for the left turn.  Use as much track as you need to make the left hander, but try to get back to mid track, or at least across the seam. Power on to the right hander with a slight lift to turn down the hill. Full throttle for the straight chute down the hill.
    • Don't overslow for Rattlesnake. The car should feel like it is drifting sideways as you pitch it around the entry right hander and scrub your way up the hill. The pitch of the track will help catch and slow the car so you arrive at the top left hander just in time to throw it left. If you are not saying to yourself "wow I don't think I'm going to make this right hander" you probably slowed too much coming in. Trail brake and rotation city! It's amazing how fast you can actually take that entry.

     

  • Wagon Wheel: Tap the brake gently to set the front and turn into wagon wheel. Don't worry about how far you drop into wagon wheel, use as much track as you need, and no more. Power on until the yaw points you up the hill - you will need opposite lock here. If you're not having to catch the car from spinning, you are not going fast enough. Get to the apex and power up the hill.
  • Ricochet: Entry is at around 80MPH+. You need to turn in early for this corner (early apex) and get to power. The power is what will save you, turning in just a hair early is what makes it fast.
  • Little Bend: Trail brake into the corner and (if you need to) increase steering through the corner - it's not a single input corner. Get to the curbing, where the gravity well is. Done right, you will take LB over 65MPH at the slowest point.
  • Buzzard Neck: You'll need to move in from the edge a few feet, brake smoothly and input crisply. Oh, there are also big bumps at the apex. Get to full power by the apex and hustle to Horseshoe. You should try to get to mid track if you can, the farther you can get the better - but DON'T compromise speed on the straight for the corner, it's a slow corner so you should maximize time on the gas. If you get 1/2 way back across the track you can trail brake up the hill, and you should come very close to the apex. You will need opposite lock here as well. If you are not having to catch the car from spinning as you move up the hill, you entered too slow. The car should end up in the middle of the rumble strips on exit.
  • Boot Hill: Apex Boot Hill or displace it just a bit (2-3 feet max) so that you've got the right angle of approach for Tombstone. Short shift here so that you don't have to shift when the car has taken a set and is completely loaded.
  • Tombstone:: You should need a slight lift to rotate to the apex (trailing throttle oversteer). When the yaw is correct, power early. This is the hardest place to get your opposite lock done, as it's over 80MPH at the apex, but on exit the car might get loose. Remember, if you have to correct, don't lift or you'll be mowing the lawn.
  • Big Bend: Light braking and to power early. You need to get to throttle near the start of the corner to set the car, then increase power linearly throught the corner. At the apex you should already be at full throttle.

 

My notes:

Big bend - fast sweeper. Light braking and to power early. You need to get to throttle near the start of the corner to set the car, then increase power linearly throught the corner. At the apex you should already be at full throttle.

Rattle snake - diagonal from the left of the track just past start finish, but don't aim to clip the curbing on the right, it pinches the right hander. Try to enter from about 1 car length to the left of curbing under trail braking taking 3rd gear up the hill. Turn up the hill and you should have a short straight line up, tap the brake (if you need to) and take 2nd for the lefty. Use as much track as you need to make the left hander, but try to get back to mid track, or at least across the seam. Power on to the right hander with a slight lift to turn down the hill. Full throttle for the straight chute down the hill.

Wagon Wheel - tap the brake gently to set the front and turn into wagon wheel. Don't worry about how far you drop into wagon wheel, use as much track as you need, and no more. Power on until the yaw points you up the hill - you will need opposite lock here. If you're not catching the car, you are not going fast enough. Get to the apex and power up the hill.

Ricochet - depending on your car you may have to brake or lift, or neither. Entry is at around 80MPH+. You need to turn in early for this corner (early apex) and get to power. The power is what will save you, turning in just a hair early is what makes it fast.

Little bend should be approached from mid track on a diagonal line. Trail brake into the corner and (if you need to) increase steering through the corner - it's not a single input corner. Get to the curbing, where the gravity well is. Done right, you will take LB over 65MPH at the slowest point.

Buzzard's Neck - right hander with uneven pavement in the braking zone. If your car is stiffly sprung, you'll hit ABS. You'll need to move in from the edge a few feet, brake smoothly and input crisply. Oh, there are also big bumps at the apex. Get to full power by the apex and hustle to horseshoe. You should try to get to mid track if you can, the farther you can get the better - but DON'T compromise speed on the straight for the corner, it's a slow corner so you should maximize time on the gas. If you get 1/2 way back across the track you can trail brake up the hill, and you should come very close to the apex. You will need opposite lock here as well. If you are not catching the car up the hill, you entered too slow. The car should end up in the middle of the rumble strips on exit.

Apex Boot Hill or displace it just a bit (2-3 feet max) so that you've got the right angle of approach for tombstone. Short shift here so that you don't have to shift when the car has taken a set and is completely loaded.

Tombstone - You should need a slight lift to rotate to the apex (trailing throttle oversteer). When the yaw is correct, power early. This is the hardest place to get your opposite lock done, as it's over 80MPH at the apex, but on exit the car might get loose. Remember, if you have to correct, don't lift or you'll be mowing the lawn.

In my experience, here is where the easy time is gained on the 1.7CCW for beginners and intermediates:
1) not overslowing for big bend (1-2 seconds)
2) better entry into little bend (1 second)
3) grow a pair in ricochet (.5-1 second)
4) go faster in boothill tombstone complex (1 second)

 

 

This is just the 1.7. 

Share this post


Link to post

Er, I left a key word out... "It's a lot of fun but NOT easy to learn or instruct!" Important word, heh.

 

robert

:biggrin:

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...