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Hollywood

2020 Toyota GR Supra

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Ok let's get right to it. Who from TJ is going to buy one? It reads and looks like it's priced quite right for what it is and what it offers.

 

 

https://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/27962/2020-toyota-gr-supra-first-drive-review-a-bmw-wrapped-in-a-flashy-toyota-skin

https://jalopnik.com/the-2020-toyota-supra-is-not-what-we-expected-but-it-is-1834624543

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Doug liked it. But automatic, man. Maybe if they roll out a stick shift? And $50K... I can buy a lot of other fun things for that kinda money.

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I actually am in the market for a trackable daily driver.      

The automatic transmission albeit a really good one absolutely kills it for me. 

beyond that I think it actually looks pretty good, ticks the boxes for me so to speak.   Not wanting another corvette but a car with more power than a potato would be nice and it does that well. 

DCT or manual only plz ty 

 

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There might be a manual later (dick move) or, they bench-marked the Cayman so you could get one of those (they're nice and very fun at the track). 

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22 minutes ago, BRZ4Science said:

There might be a manual later (dick move) or, they bench-marked the Cayman so you could get one of those (they're nice and very fun at the track). 

Price point for a new 718 kinda blows out the comparison, makes the Supra that much more appealing IMO

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1 hour ago, lobster said:

 

The automatic transmission albeit a really good one absolutely kills it for me. 

DCT or manual only plz ty 

 

 

Shit. In my haste I thought I had read that it was a DCT. That’s a big bummer...

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37 minutes ago, Hollywood said:

Price point for a new 718 kinda blows out the comparison, makes the Supra that much more appealing IMO

But there are used 718's and there are no used Supra (plus they'll have a mark up for at least the first year).

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I like it. The looks I mean.

I do not desire it but I also don’t think they built it for a late 30s family guy.

50k is quite some money and today for that number, beside used German beetle junk, there are used options like the M2, 718, M4, C7 GS (I could have stopped here).

 

the success of this car will depend by:

  • how much can it be modded by jdm fanboys 
  • how conservative where the hp figures
  • how much ass it kicks on track.

side note: I drove near a Z4 convertible with the 4cyl and it sounds hideous.

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ZF > DCT for a dual duty car.  You can sit in traffic and not roast your clutches (something a lot of used BMW owners are going to be very sad about in a few years, they should really tell you not to let the car inch itself forward in traffic all day).  The ZF 8 speed shifts as fast and as well as a DCT, other than maybe the PDK variety but that's a given.  

 

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20 minutes ago, tyhackman15 said:

ZF > DCT for a dual duty car.  You can sit in traffic and not roast your clutches (something a lot of used BMW owners are going to be very sad about in a few years, they should really tell you not to let the car inch itself forward in traffic all day).  The ZF 8 speed shifts as fast and as well as a DCT, other than maybe the PDK variety but that's a given.  

The clutch comment is interesting... I watched a video recently where a Lamborghini rental came back with burned out clutches. The dude then went into how people treat them like automatics but they're not, blah blah blah... I couldn't help wonder if he had mentioned this to the rental customer, but in any case, I think it's a mistake that many that many people could make. So you might be right about the ZF being superior in this case, given that this is a car that will likely be daily driven and such.

OTOH, I don't hear too many VW owners worrying about burned out clutches? Maybe I'm just not paying attention.

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If a DCT would be acceptable for those who like everything about the car except for the auto trans I can pretty much guarantee the ZF8 would also be acceptable. Like the articles say...its the best auto trans I've ever driven and when you put it in manual/paddleshift mode I would say it provides 95% of the performance you get from a DCT. That final 5% is not necessary unless its a dedicated track/competition car. For a daily/occasional track car it may just be the best transmission ever made...assuming you don't want three pedals of course...

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31 minutes ago, robertcope said:

The clutch comment is interesting... I watched a video recently where a Lamborghini rental came back with burned out clutches. The dude then went into how people treat them like automatics but they're not, blah blah blah... I couldn't help wonder if he had mentioned this to the rental customer, but in any case, I think it's a mistake that many that many people could make. So you might be right about the ZF being superior in this case, given that this is a car that will likely be daily driven and such.

OTOH, I don't hear too many VW owners worrying about burned out clutches? Maybe I'm just not paying attention.

 

In my experience DSG boxes fail before the clutches wear out lol.  That being said, DCT clutches should last a very long time, in theory.  The lambo issues of old are for the original e-gear single clutch transmissions.  But I'd still rather a ZF for a street car. 

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13 minutes ago, robertcope said:

 

Nice! I didn’t realize he even reviewed the car itself!

 

 

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Saw this in the comments, made me laugh:

 

Customer: Where is the dipstick?

Toyota: Yes.

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20 minutes ago, robertcope said:

 

Great video thanks for sharing! Yes...everything Jason said +1...ha. The biggest giveaway is how many high end sports/luxury car makers are using the ZF8. Its so good its basically a no brainer for nearly every type of vehicle application.

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I know I look to the ZF8 transmission when I want a super fast shifting transmission that's never in the right gear I want!  

I'm also curious if cooling is going to be an issue for the track... you know the place where this entire forum goes.    

 

but herpa derpa derppity derp it shifts on its own it must be great in traffic...    

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1 hour ago, lobster said:

I know I look to the ZF8 transmission when I want a super fast shifting transmission that's never in the right gear I want!  

I'm also curious if cooling is going to be an issue for the track... you know the place where this entire forum goes.    

but herpa derpa derppity derp it shifts on its own it must be great in traffic...    

For spirited/track driving you just put it in manual mode and select whatever gear you want. Doesn't upshift on the limiter. Only changes down to avoid stalling and cancels down change requests that would blow up the motor like any other DCT. For street driving in auto mode, depending on selected drive mode and personal preference/mood of course, it is spooky good at knowing what gear I want to be in. I very rarely feel the need to grab a paddle to override the chosen gear.

Regarding cooling on track I've never had an issue, the gearbox oil is specific to the ZF8 and is more like conventional oil than ATF so it handles heat very well but also responds fairly decent on cold starts.

And yes, it works amazing in traffic...derp.

 

 

 

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"traffic" doesn't register on my meter of giving any amounts of fucks. 

 

It may be fantastic I dunno.    Manually shifted automatics seem to have a delay.   Including the C7 corvette's A8 and the A10 in the camaro.   Click.... wait... shift.. 

It may have some great logic for shifting i dont know,  I just expect to be let down severely in the name of efficiency or some other nonsense. 

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10 minutes ago, lobster said:

"traffic" doesn't register on my meter of giving any amounts of fucks. 

It may be fantastic I dunno.    Manually shifted automatics seem to have a delay.   Including the C7 corvette's A8 and the A10 in the camaro.   Click.... wait... shift.. 

It may have some great logic for shifting i dont know,  I just expect to be let down severely in the name of efficiency or some other nonsense. 

I hear you on only caring about the performance side and not the mundane daily life stuff and understand where you are coming from given your points of reference...but the ZF8 really is like the best of both worlds. Everything Jason was gushing about in the video has been true in my experience. Hopefully you've seen other vids from his channel and can trust his judgement. Most folks are fooled into thinking they are driving a DCT when they are driving the ZF8. The software has even gotten better over the years which is why I think Toyota made the right choice to only offer the ZF8 in the Supra. Three pedal cars at the $50k price point are like Stanley Steamers nowadays and if Toyota barely had a business case for building the Supra by platform sharing with BMW, I don't think there is any chance of a manual being offered now or in the future, the market just isn't there anymore. And no, a handful of people on car forums whining about a lack of manual that likely wouldn't buy the car regardless do not equate to a market segment. I remember when the GT-R purists said they would not buy the R35 unless it was offered in a manual...they eventually caved and (most) eventually admitted Nissan got it right.

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38 minutes ago, lobster said:

 Manually shifted automatics seem to have a delay.   Including the C7 corvette's A8 and the A10 in the camaro.   Click.... wait... shift.. 

That delay was the only knock I had against the C7 GS I got to drive in anger at Cresson. Otherwise the car was phenomenal. I'd still rather row my own for the "fun" of it.

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1 hour ago, lobster said:

"traffic" doesn't register on my meter of giving any amounts of fucks. 

 

It may be fantastic I dunno.    Manually shifted automatics seem to have a delay.   Including the C7 corvette's A8 and the A10 in the camaro.   Click.... wait... shift.. 

It may have some great logic for shifting i dont know,  I just expect to be let down severely in the name of efficiency or some other nonsense. 

 

C7 auto and ZF shouldn't be in the same sentence.  Honestly.  Don't knock a zf until you try one.  Go drive an m240i or similar and you'll be amazed (with the trans, not the understeer lolz)

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30 minutes ago, joesurf79 said:

 

That delay was the only knock I had against the C7 GS I got to drive in anger at Cresson. Otherwise the car was phenomenal. I'd still rather row my own for the "fun" of it.

This, you can kind of get used to pulling the paddles a little early but sometimes when you do that the computer decides to increase the delay and you're back at square one.

I'd bet that the Supra will need a transmission cooler and really you probably want one with any automatic that you're going to be tracking.

The GTR also ate transmissions like it was going out of style and you couldn't sue the launch mode on early cars without voiding the warranty. I've also yet to meet someone at the track with a GTR who belonged there and wasn't a total doofus who was a danger to himself and others. I'm not saying it's the cars fault since it covers up so many terrible habits with its fancy computer controlled all wheel drive and automated shifting, but there's a strong correlation between the type of driver who'd be happy with a car that does more of the driving itself and the type of driver who causes trouble at a DE. 

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Why are we talking about transmissions?

 

anyhow I am liking this car.

interesting to note how it weights similar to, for example, a 996 Turbo at 3400lbs, it has 80hp and 50ft-lb less yet the 0-60 time is the same 4.1s. Automatic gearbox magics. Should be a fun car. Is the LSD mechanical 

 

*die hard dreamer*

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I also find amusing how both Toyota and BMW talk about "fine tuning differences" that somehow make the cars "feel different" thanks to some supposed and not disclosed "chassis tuning".

Most of the times it comes down to one having a thicker anti roll bar than the other. THey look very different at least, which is good enough. Not sure why BMW got inspired by FIat to design the Z4 but alas...

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