Jump to content
Hollywood

SM Switches to Penske Shocks

Recommended Posts

Want to know how I know you work for Big Oil?

holy fark I'm ready to shoot some of these guys..  have 6 meetings about the same part of a design, and each time there's a new player that wasn't there before and wants to do it a different way.  end client says "well you haven't submitted anything to freeze the design, so we can still change it."   MOTHER FU*** I HAVEN'T SUBMITTED ANYTHING BECAUSE IT CHANGES BY THE WEEK!!!

Link to post

The difference between more and less digressive shocks was 1.5 seconds for me at MSRC 1.7.

 

I'm assuming you were driving? In which case, the driver had far more to do with this than the shocks. Just to be clear, this is neither a compliment nor a slam of some kind, you just don't have the skills to measure that sort of change.

Link to post

holy fark I'm ready to shoot some of these guys..  have 6 meetings about the same part of a design, and each time there's a new player that wasn't there before and wants to do it a different way.  end client says "well you haven't submitted anything to freeze the design, so we can still change it."   MOTHER FU*** I HAVEN'T SUBMITTED ANYTHING BECAUSE IT CHANGES BY THE WEEK!!!

 

LOL, I've worked at that job.

Them:  "Before you do anything, let me run this up the chain to the C level executives and make sure we have full approval."

Me:  "The computer's out of disk space.  I just need to expand the hard drive and delete some temp files."

 

Link to post

I'm assuming you were driving? In which case, the driver had far more to do with this than the shocks. Just to be clear, this is neither a compliment nor a slam of some kind, you just don't have the skills to measure that sort of change.

 

 

Maybe??? But those were the times i logged.  Granted the first setup was a high end 'street' shock (custom valved KW 2 way clubsports) and the 2nd were MCS 2 ways. The difference in compliance was astounding. I noticed i was able to carry a lot more speed through big bend as the car was just much better settled on entry, and i was able to stay on the gas through ricochet so my corner exit times were a lot higher.  Those were the 2 main things i noticed. I don't claim to be a good driver, so chalk it up to placebo if you wish, but there's something to be said about driver confidence which i guess was harder to come by on the KW's. 

 

 

EDIT:  Looks like the penske shocks on the miata are good for 1 second towards the end of a 30 minute session. I always run my fast laps towards the end of a session because it takes me a bit to get in the zone so i set my cold tire pressures to reflect that.  If we're using this as a baseline of motorsport vs street shock comparison, my experience isn't too far off from a professional driver completing a similar test. 

Link to post

The difference between more and less digressive shocks was 1.5 seconds for me at MSRC 1.7.  1:23 on cheap ass federal street tires at 3700 lbs with 290 hp, 94 degrees ambient temperature. Honestly, you come across as someone to me who has no business being a data engineer for anyone. Probably a good thing you don't do it anymore. 

 

Interesting, with the pro driver who helped develop the LMP2 chassis kinematics for Ligier, the difference between digressive and non-digressive shocks was within lap to lap noise in the data, and he's, you know, a professional with tens of thousands of laps where we were testing. So, just because I'm curious, what shocks were you testing? Are you looking at shock pot data to actually verify the shocks are making you faster or are you just comparing lap times?

 

Two things...

1) That's why you don't get paid to race cars - that's pretty indicative of your skill level as a driver moreso than the performance of the shocks.

2) One quickly tires of doing work and having paychecks bounce. If you're good at something, never do it for free...

 

As far as putting down an aspect of part of the sport that people enjoy? I'm not. Nice try though.

Link to post

Interesting, with the pro driver who helped develop the LMP2 chassis kinematics for Ligier, the difference between digressive and non-digressive shocks was within lap to lap noise in the data, and he's, you know, a professional with tens of thousands of laps where we were testing. So, just because I'm curious, what shocks were you testing? Are you looking at shock pot data to actually verify the shocks are making you faster or are you just comparing lap times?

 

Two things...

1) That's why you don't get paid to race cars - that's pretty indicative of your skill level as a driver moreso than the performance of the shocks.

2) One quickly tires of doing work and having paychecks bounce. If you're good at something, never do it for free...

 

As far as putting down an aspect of part of the sport that people enjoy? I'm not. Nice try though.

You're right. Fuck me for trying to understand shocks. How dare I.

 

 

 

Now put your e-dick away, it's not very flattering.

Link to post

Interesting, with the pro driver who helped develop the LMP2 chassis kinematics for Ligier, the difference between digressive and non-digressive shocks was within lap to lap noise in the data, and he's, you know, a professional with tens of thousands of laps where we were testing. So, just because I'm curious, what shocks were you testing? Are you looking at shock pot data to actually verify the shocks are making you faster or are you just comparing lap times?

 

Two things...

1) That's why you don't get paid to race cars - that's pretty indicative of your skill level as a driver moreso than the performance of the shocks.

2) One quickly tires of doing work and having paychecks bounce. If you're good at something, never do it for free...

 

As far as putting down an aspect of part of the sport that people enjoy? I'm not. Nice try though.

 

Richard, something to consider here is the VAST difference between a top-quality digressive and non-digressive shock that you might find on an LMP2 car and the complete ratshit performance that comes with "JDM y0!" unfortunate Auto "coilovers" and some more decent MCS 2-way.

 

I'm also very much a 'shut up and drive' kinda guy, and it shows in my car and setup- or lack thereof.  I remember one time I loaned my car to a guy at MSRH who took just a couple laps in it and parked saying it was undriveable for multiple reasons..   I hopped in and spent the rest of the day happily running ~1:50s..   (IMO, If you can learn to drive a shitty car fast, you can drive a good car faster).

 

Each of you are on different extremes of the spectrum when it comes to perspective.  you are experienced with top-level drivers that are able to eek out the last few hundredths out of a car regardless of setup and how poorly it drives.  Others have huge leaps in confidence when the car is smoother over bumps, so it makes a much larger difference in their ability to lay down faster and more consistent lap times.

Link to post

Daniel - I don't know shit about shocks but I am not aware of you having posted a video of you driving or an official time since April 2016.  I think your posts would have more credibility and interest if you actually drove.  You and I exchanged some posts one time about VIR - however, my gut told me that you had't actually driven the track in anything other than iracing yet you stated that you had driven it for real in SM posting near record lap times.  Surlynkid called BS on you and the thread died right there.  We're all students of this sport, but its time to start driving on real road courses and spending less time posting up all of these academic questions.

 

And leave Richard alone - he can't help it that that he's a robo-hipster.

Link to post

Daniel - I don't know shit about shocks but I am not aware of you having posted a video of you driving or an official time since April 2016.  I think your posts would have more credibility and interest if you actually drove.  You and I exchanged some posts one time about VIR - however, my gut told me that you had't actually driven the track in anything other than iracing yet you stated that you had driven it for real in SM posting near record lap times.  Surlynkid called BS on you and the thread died right there.  We're all students of this sport, but its time to start driving on real road courses and spending less time posting up all of these academic questions.

 

And leave Richard alone - he can't help it that that he's a robo-hipster.

 

 

I vaguely remember that conversation, but i thought it happened in person???

 

Anyways, i spent a little over a year traveling an insane amount for work, recently left that job, and am waiting on SPL to finish some endlinks so i can hit the track. I'm definitely not track absent by choice.... My last event with NASA was back in 2016 but i've gotten a day in very randomly in other cars.

 

I check and post these forums because its the only kind of fix i can get considering my situation. Didn't know everyone hated me. If that's the case i'll just bug out and keep to myself.  

Link to post

Jeez, the guy just wanted to know some more technical info on how they chose the dampers and we get race "engineer" extraordinaire in here telling him he's hopeless because he's not hitting the track every day and cranking out metronome level precision lap times. 

 

We're just a bunch of dudes that like cars, on a car forum, discussing cars. No need to "I've worked on a REAL race car you peasant" when a guy is just asking an innocent question that's totally in the realm of what this car forum should be. 

 

 

 

 

As for me, I never really saw any speed difference that was more apparent than ~10 deg F ambient temp fluctuations or tire age with slightly changing shock settings, but I saw a HUGE decrease in lap times going from garbage dampers to mediocre/okay dampers, like 2-3 secs/minute of laptime. It wasn't me being an ultra shitty driver, it was that the Chinese crap that was a placeholder on the car was really THAT bad. 

Link to post

HP: my constructive comment, I hope: are you running 10 laps in a row within tenths (or hundredths) of each other before you try a new setup? The point: you establish a VERY consistent baseline time with what you have before you make changes. After making a change are you now x.xxx faster per lap for 10 laps? Just throwing out something to help, I hope. Throw out 1 Lap anomalies. Use data, etc. Tipping hat icon here...

Link to post

HP: my constructive comment, I hope: are you running 10 laps in a row within tenths (or hundredths) of each other before you try a new setup? The point: you establish a VERY consistent baseline time with what you have before you make changes. After making a change are you now x.xxx faster per lap for 10 laps? Just throwing out something to help, I hope. Throw out 1 Lap anomalies. Use data, etc. Tipping hat icon here...

 

Or he could just tinker with his car if that's what he likes to do... 

 

This is a hobby for all/most on here. Just do whatever makes you happy. 

 

Now, don't go spouting that this or that did anything other than "feel better" if your lap times are all over the place, but I'd think most people in advanced DE groups could at least have a rough idea if they're going in the right direction on a lot of stuff. 

Link to post

Or he could just tinker with his car if that's what he likes to do... 

 

This is a hobby for all/most on here. Just do whatever makes you happy. 

 

Now, don't go spouting that this or that did anything other than "feel better" if your lap times are all over the place, but I'd think most people in advanced DE groups could at least have a rough idea if they're going in the right direction on a lot of stuff. 

Most people in advanced DE groups are garbage.

Link to post

Most people in advanced DE groups are garbage.

 

Yes, this is very true. But it doesn't take a Lewis Hamilton to tell that a better front/rear roll stiffness ratio is yielding better steady state grip in a unibody car. 

Link to post

 Didn't know everyone hated me. If that's the case i'll just bug out and keep to myself.  

 

Now put your e-dick away, it's not very flattering.

 

We don't hate you, we've grown intolerant of overly academic questions with little real-world application and iracing flaunted as real experience. One of the things that makes this forum unique is that  for the most part, we all know each other in real life. As a result, we have an exceedingly low tolerance for bullshit, and will call it out without hesitation the same way we would in person. If you think that I would have worded anything differently having that conversation in person, you're grossly mistaken. I may be a grumpy fuck, but I'm a competent grumpy fuck, I'm not trying to flatter you or anyone else, you're not my type anyway... 

 

The best advice you can give someone at your (and almost everyone else on here) level is STFU and drive. The benefits you'll see from more seat time greatly outweigh the "perfect" setup - you'll learn that as you get more and more comfortable in a car, your preferences for a "perfect" setup change, and significantly so.

Link to post

And go slower....possibly....hobby!?!?!?!?!?!? Ha! Fine line between insanity and hobby!!!! I won the Advanced DE Trophy at least twice - well, actually Robert stole it from me once....and Lobstah....well, I threw it at him!!!  :tongue:

 

Or he could just tinker with his car if that's what he likes to do... 

 

This is a hobby for all/most on here. Just do whatever makes you happy. 

 

Now, don't go spouting that this or that did anything other than "feel better" if your lap times are all over the place, but I'd think most people in advanced DE groups could at least have a rough idea if they're going in the right direction on a lot of stuff. 

Link to post

In an attempt to get this thread back on the rails, let me ask this.
 

Would the Penske SM shock and spring setup be a good choice for my 01 TT Miata?  My car won't ever be a Spec Miata.  But at $1000, those Penske's are half the cost of Xidas or Fox dampers.

Link to post

×
×
  • Create New...