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SM Switches to Penske Shocks

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I always found it funny that SM guys replaced bump stops more often than they replaced shocks...

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Your answer is at:

 

www.nasaproracing.com

 

“Mazda Spec Miata Penske Racing Shocks Upgrade on Way to NASA and SCCA“

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Todd Lamb's 2 cents:

 

"Now that the news is released, I can give the SMAC insight on the Penske's.

 

I was personally very reluctant to make a shock supply change, up until 2017 Runoffs when we started running into serious compliance checking issues. Further dyno info confirmed that Bilstein was not doing a very good job of holding to any meaningful tolerances (understandably, it is a mass production street shock). That, coupled with the supply issue, had the SMAC, Mazda and everyone else wondering if there was a better solution. Unfortunately, there was not a readily available solution that would mitigate the supply issue, so we weren't able to fix that. Instead, behind the scenes several of us were investigating options for a different shock.

 

We all owe a HUGE thank you to Mazda for organizing, coordinating, and conducting the shock test at CMP. There was a lot of time and BIG money spent on the test, and a lot of people involved from teams, tire manufacturers, shock companies, drivers/crew, and sanctioning bodies. 

 

In case you haven't seen it, there's a long writeup on the entire testing and selection criteria available here: http://www.mazdamoto...ks-Evolving.pdf

 

The biggest issue for all of us was the cost of the Penske's relative to the current Bilstein. However, the VALUE was quite clearly there, and the price became less and less of a factor when you realize just how much more shock you're getting for your money.

 

Other factors we considered at great length:

-having a tamper proof (tech-able) shock

-serviceability by Penske only, and at a reasonable price

-contingency

-ability to utilize as many of the existing SM parts as possible

-performance (curbing on/off, dropping wheels off track, rough pavement, bumps, tire degradation, long runs, rain, driver feel)

-reliability, which couples with getting cars off bump stops (the new bump stop kit does not lend itself to running low)

-a good partner company for long-term relations

-good across NA/NB1/NB2 platforms

 

All of these factors quickly led us to the conclusion that the Penske was the correct choice for the class.

 

I personally drove the Penske's and the improvement in handling is immediately noticeable, especially over curbing and in transitions. Also quite noticeable as weight transfers during braking and trailbraking. I believe these shocks will be much easier on the cars, leading to longer component life and less failures. 

 

This is a win for the entire class, across SCCA, NASA, and SVRA."

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I meant technically. That power point is not technical nor does it provide any useful information about the competing shocks.

Not sure what exactly you were expecting to see? It was basically a glorified magazine test with hot shoe drivers not a post grad MEng thesis...and evaluating damper performance is almost entirely subjective except for lap time and tire deg deltas.

 

However I would like to know what other dampers were considered but understand why they left that out of the final documentation. Am sure the SM insiders will leak it out eventually...

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Not sure what exactly you were expecting to see? 

 

However I would like to know what other dampers were considered but understand why they left that out of the final documentation. 

That's the most detailed info currently available.

The AST/Moton guys posted on Spec Miata Man Drama facebook page, that they were disappointed their product was not selected, but thanking them for the opportunity and saying the process was inclusive and transparent.

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Not sure what exactly you were expecting to see? It was basically a glorified magazine test with hot shoe drivers not a post grad MEng thesis...and evaluating damper performance is almost entirely subjective except for lap time and tire deg deltas.

 

However I would like to know what other dampers were considered but understand why they left that out of the final documentation. Am sure the SM insiders will leak it out eventually...

 

 

As a weekend warrior, i always like to learn more to help give myself a competitive edge. I was hoping that perhaps shock dynos could have been shared so we can see locations of the 'knee'  and how digressive compression was in hopes to correlate these things to better performance.  We all know the more digressive a mono is, the better it can be for compliance and response, but exactly how much is enough, and where this knee should be is still a total mystery for us mortals. As an  MCS owner and fan, i was hoping to see if they were in the mix and to see exactly how they fared for comparison. 

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As a weekend warrior, i always like to learn more to help give myself a competitive edge. I was hoping that perhaps shock dynos could have been shared so we can see locations of the 'knee'  and how digressive compression was in hopes to correlate these things to better performance.  We all know the more digressive a mono is, the better it can be for compliance and response, but exactly how much is enough, and where this knee should be is still a total mystery for us mortals. As an  MCS owner and fan, i was hoping to see if they were in the mix and to see exactly how they fared for comparison. 

 

You should spend more time driving, and less time worrying about shock dynos. Knowing all the stats and mechanics is great, but the odds of you being able to implement your knowledge is pretty small. Furthermore, lap speed percentage terms, the difference between more and less digressive shocks is minute at best, even with professional drivers, most of whom can't tell a data engineer (which I've done for multiple IMSA teams) which shocks are on the car. The ONE guy that did was Nic Jonsson, and that's because he worked for Ligier developing shock packages for the chassis.

 

Put another way...you consistently come across like the kid that watches a shitload of porn and have read all the books, so you know everything about sex, but are still a virgin...exactly how many track events have you been to in the past year? What kind of times are you putting down?

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you consistently come across like the kid that watches a shitload of porn and have read all the books, so you know everything about sex, but are still a virgin.

 

I was upset to see you flaming Hispanic Panic.  But I reread your post.  You didn't say he WAS a virgin.  You just said he was LIKE a virgin.

 
Shit, you just compared him to Madonna.

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This poster comes to mind...

 

5b76e0b5dc3a4_AnalysisParalysis_.jpg

 

Want to know how I know you work for Big Oil?

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Like a virgin....shocked for the very first time.....ohhhhh ooohhh oh.....yeah, like a virgin....LOL!!

 

Let me tell you my shock story....so, apparently at Daytona 2015 Runoffs I completed (top 10 BTW) the race with a blown left rear shock...didn't know, car felt FINE to me...upon post-race / next pre-race prep the crew found that you could bounce the back end of the car and it would just keep bouncing....LOL!! Put new shock on...car was slower....LOL....I wanted my broken equipment back - I do better with broken stuff!! LOL....we chased setup and got everything right but it was just funny....shocks? what are those???? LOL!

 

You should spend more time driving, and less time worrying about shock dynos. Knowing all the stats and mechanics is great, but the odds of you being able to implement your knowledge is pretty small. Furthermore, lap speed percentage terms, the difference between more and less digressive shocks is minute at best, even with professional drivers, most of whom can't tell a data engineer (which I've done for multiple IMSA teams) which shocks are on the car. The ONE guy that did was Nic Jonsson, and that's because he worked for Ligier developing shock packages for the chassis.

 

Put another way...you consistently come across like the kid that watches a shitload of porn and have read all the books, so you know everything about sex, but are still a virgin...exactly how many track events have you been to in the past year? What kind of times are you putting down?

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He left his employee badge on your nightstand? 

 

I don't care who you are, that's funny.

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You should spend more time driving, and less time worrying about shock dynos. Knowing all the stats and mechanics is great, but the odds of you being able to implement your knowledge is pretty small. Furthermore, lap speed percentage terms, the difference between more and less digressive shocks is minute at best, even with professional drivers, most of whom can't tell a data engineer (which I've done for multiple IMSA teams) which shocks are on the car. The ONE guy that did was Nic Jonsson, and that's because he worked for Ligier developing shock packages for the chassis.

 

Put another way...you consistently come across like the kid that watches a shitload of porn and have read all the books, so you know everything about sex, but are still a virgin...exactly how many track events have you been to in the past year? What kind of times are you putting down?

 

 

I appreciate the honesty in your response, but don't appreciate you coming down on an aspect of the sport that some people really enjoy and receive a lot of fulfillment from.  Some people enjoy the drive, others the wrench, and some (myself included) get off on the engineering and optimization of things. Considering the availability of quality shocks for most platforms, there is absolutely no reason why someone SHOULDN'T try to understand the differences between their options. Leveraging your logic further, someone should just be happy with what they have, despite the fact that it may not be a good use of their money or may not provide the best experience.  But let's not stop there...... Setup logs? Don't bother. You see what i'm getting at here?

 

The difference between more and less digressive shocks was 1.5 seconds for me at MSRC 1.7.  1:23 on cheap ass federal street tires at 3700 lbs with 290 hp, 94 degrees ambient temperature. Honestly, you come across as someone to me who has no business being a data engineer for anyone. Probably a good thing you don't do it anymore. 

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