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MoonieGT

Looking for suggestions: DD w/ back seat that can do 1-2 track events a year

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The new STi and WRX are due in the next year or two and the next gen BRZ should be right behind them. There's a pretty good chance that they'll be using different flavors of Subaru's new 2.4L motor that debuted in the new SUV.

 

I got my BRZ after a seal let go in my 2010 WRX and I burned through 3qts of oil in a day resulting in rod knock and engine failure.

 

Within 3 months of my purchase, 3 of my autox friends who also were driving WRX's traded them in for BRZ's. The twins are just way more fun to autox or track. I've had my BRZ for 4 years and it still feels like a new car to me (despite me beating the hell out of it with over 100 autox events and nearly 40 trackdays).

 

The twins are plenty of car for MSR-C and MSR-H, the long straights at ECR and COTA are a little much for them (the ECR redesign should really make that a much better track for the twins). I bet if you end up in an 86 you'll find yourself at the track/autox more often than you would with any other vehicle.

 

Eric Jensen brought his son's 2013 STi to the track while he was getting a cage installed in his 86, he was so disappointed with the experience that he almost left at lunch. Now, I think he was over reacting a little bit but his cautious optimism from the morning (where he was interested to track a car with a bit more power than his at the time mostly stock twin) fading so quickly and turning into outright disdain makes me worried that I may have ruined myself for other cars. If I weren't in a twin, I'd have to spend more than twice as much to get into anything close to as fun.

 

Agreed, it's amazing how well suited they are for track use for such a low priced car.   I used to own a Cayman S, and it feels like 80% of that car for 1/2 the price, w/ the added benefits of easier maintenance, a back seat, cheap on consumables, and plenty of cargo room for tires, bikes, etc.

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Unless you dump an incredible amount of money, WRX are pretty boring to drive on track. Great fun on a tarmac rally stage, not on track. There - I said it.

 

What’s the point of having a track capable car if it’s not fun to drive.

 

Also I would consider:

 

Used Cadillac ATS - V or used Chevrolet SS (with manual)

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Since you mentioned hot hatches....my first track car was a 2007 Mazdaspeed 3. Took me from Green through to Yellow, never overheated even in June @ TWS (on stock cooling + Stage 1 tune), Great sleeper car, massive fun, huge versatility. 

 

Instead of the RS, have you considered an ST? Much, much, cheaper (I've just traded in the MS3 for a ST).

 

I do like hatchbacks and I do think the Focus ST is a good enough looking car.  Can the focus handle track sessions?  I'll have to research how they handle heat.  I'm assuming the Focus ST falls in the same category as the WRX: fun street car; bad track car?

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*In general* that will ring true with most turbo cars.  OEMs design turbo cars around DD use and a short hard fun run, maybe canyon carving, but they are usually not cooled well enough for a 20 minute session at full tilt.

 

then throw on all of the electronic nannies required by the gubmint and they become heavy intrusive pigs that are no fun to drive on track.

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What about the Genesis Coupe with the 3.8L V6? Anyone have any Intel on them?

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I drove a student's at ECR a few months back, the whole car was super numb. Steering feel was non-existent and it wobbled around the track. The car felt heavy and did not inspire confidence. My student had brake problems (he had EBC Yellows which aren't really track pads).

 

Now, it could have just been his car but when I test drove one back in 2010 it was also floaty, vague, and made me carsick while driving (I've never been carsick before or since and I instruct at the track, in autox, and at the Tire Rack Street Survival teen driving school).

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I do like hatchbacks and I do think the Focus ST is a good enough looking car.  Can the focus handle track sessions?  I'll have to research how they handle heat.  I'm assuming the Focus ST falls in the same category as the WRX: fun street car; bad track car?

 

You'll probably get some answers here: https://www.focusst.org/forum/

 

You'll almost certainly need an aftermarket inter cooler.

 

As Matt pointed out, worth checking if the nannies can be turned off.

 

There is a Fiesta ST running with the Red group in TDE - seems to lap about the same as my Miata (so slow!). Not sure what mods on it though.

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Get extended warranty if you get a Focus. Both my friends with ST’s have had high dollar issues with them between 55 and 70k miles. Maybe it’s a fluke that both had high dollar issues (~3k) but just an FYI.

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Yes, that's quite true as well.   I have a friend with a 2015 or 16 STi, and he's on his 4th engine build now.  first two rebuilds done by Subaru warranty for broken ring lands.  3rd time, they said no more.  I think he'd done 1-2 track days with it and the rest were autocross with basic bolt on tune stuff (downpipe, ECU, etc).

 

Thus, I personally avoid modern turbo cars like the plague. :)

 

 

That's a subaru problem.... not a turbo problem. My evo holds up amazingly well, as do all other generation of evos.  Granted, i had to do camber mods and a swaybar to even out the grip. 

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What about the Civic Si?  I've heard they have rev hang issues, but can be corrected with a tune... The coupe is offered in bright green!  

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ALL of the Ford boosted cars have some serious over heating issues. Especially in Texas.

FiST - engine

FoST - engine

FoRS - transmission

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What about the Civic Si?  I've heard they have rev hang issues, but can be corrected with a tune... The coupe is offered in bright green!  

 

I've been wondering the same! They look really good, aren't expensive, and have a peppy 1.5 Turbo. I've driven two and didn't really notice the rev hangs that much..

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The plusses for the Si over the BRZ: bigger back seat, turbo punch for DD fun, probably $6k less expensive.

 

Downsides: turbo heat, not rwd, probably more work to make it happy at the track (but if I stick to spring, winter, or fall track days...)

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The plusses for the Si over the BRZ: bigger back seat, turbo punch for DD fun, probably $6k less expensive.

 

Downsides: turbo heat, not rwd, probably more work to make it happy at the track (but if I stick to spring, winter, or fall track days...)

 

honda-civic-concept-is-new-york-s-colore

 

All about that green!

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With 1-2 trackdays a year you can go crazy with it. I’m going F80 M3 or CTS V Sport. Sadly due to health I have to have an automatic.
If you can get over it being a Cadillac the V Sport is an amazing chassis with hugely oversized brakes. Also the ATS V manual is insane and you can find them cheap. 600hp with a tune.

 

Also never do FWD unless you have to.  I ran FWD for 15yrs on the track, once I made the switch to RWD about 5 yrs ago there's no going back.  I love my track setup Mk1 VW with huge throttle lift over steer, but the miata is twice the fun with 1/3 the hp.

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My budget maxes out in the mid 30s or so. CTSV is a no go :). Not looking to spend it just to spend it.

 

I feel like the BRZ is probably the winner, but I'm trying to keep an open mind and consider all options.

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So I went through the same thing last year.  My DD was a 996 C4S and my dedicated track car was a gutted Miata.  Both my boys quickly outgrew the 996 back seats so I needed more room. 

 

I ended up with a '17 STI and I could not be happier (even with 90% of my driving being city).  To be fair I have yet to take it to the track, but I figure I can adjust as needed to keep it fun.  I don't see how any DD could ever be as fun as a dedicated track car anyway so I'm not going to expect that.  For what its worth I really enjoy it on the street.

 

I guess YMMV but I know there is a lot of STI hate out there and figured I'd chime in with my 2cents.

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My budget maxes out in the mid 30s or so. CTSV is a no go :). Not looking to spend it just to spend it.

 

I feel like the BRZ is probably the winner, but I'm trying to keep an open mind and consider all options.

Oh no you want the V-Sport, 420hp (Under rated) but it has the much faster shifting Aisin transmission and you can find them all day between 25-35k used.  The best part is they are a CTS-V parts bin car, big brakes and heavy duty differential they're over built for their power.

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I don't hate the STI at all, but I can't say I trust it for track work either.  I wish Subaru would have given it a newer engine years ago.  I've spent some time in a '15 STI.  It had fun top end power but not much going on below 4k or so.  It wasn't fun during commutes/traffic, but was great when it had some space.  I've heard that they retuned the suspension a bit in the last year or two?  I think it needed that.  The '15 was too bouncy...

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Oh no you want the V-Sport, 420hp (Under rated) but it has the much faster shifting Aisin transmission and you can find them all day between 25-35k used.  The best part is they have most of the CTS-V brakes and parts on them so they're over built for their power.

 

 

I can't say I was aware of the V-Sport.  I'm assuming it has lots of power and nothing to keep it cool?  I really like the idea of the V6 1LE Camaro with the tranny and oil coolers...

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I can't say I was aware of the V-Sport.  I'm assuming it has lots of power and nothing to keep it cool?  I really like the idea of the V6 1LE Camaro with the tranny and oil coolers...

Actually they were built like beasts from a cooling standpoint since it was mostly parts from a car with 640hp.  https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/videos/a8925/watch-matt-farah-wail-the-cts-vsport-around-willow-springs/

 

The Camaro is sweet, I'd get a used base SS for the same price before I'd buy the V6 1LE.  The 1LE V6 suspension is the base SS suspension and the V6 manual transmission feels like it was taken out of a 90's ford ranger.  The 8 and 10 speed automatics are horrible and every GM engineer involved should be flogged.

 

The STI is a nice buy too, makes you miss hydrualic steering and that is the best shifting transmission I've ever used.  You want the 2018+ brakes and an oil cooler.

 

As you can tell, I've been doing nothing but testing driving 2-3 cars a month over the last year.

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I don't hate the STI at all, but I can't say I trust it for track work either.  I wish Subaru would have given it a newer engine years ago.  I've spent some time in a '15 STI.  It had fun top end power but not much going on below 4k or so.  It wasn't fun during commutes/traffic, but was great when it had some space.  I've heard that they retuned the suspension a bit in the last year or two?  I think it needed that.  The '15 was too bouncy...

 

Honestly not 100% sure.  I know they made some chassis improvements in 16 and I think that included suspension tuning.  Its definitely a firm ride (the 996 didn't ride like a caddy either so I guess I'm used to firm) but not bouncy that I have found.

 

Ya below 3k there is really not much happening, haha.  I have a Cobb off the shelf stage 1 tune that really changed the way the car feels around town.  More linear throttle response and just a little smoother power.

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