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Track Insurance

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Guest lobster

Hey gang! 

 

I've been buying track insurance through either Ontrack or RLI for virtually every track event which basically doubles the cost of an event.  

 

So I started shopping and calling brokers.   A local State Farm insurance broker had underwriting include track events without an impact on my rate.  Just thought I would share for those of you that care.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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So I started shopping and calling brokers.   A local State Farm insurance broker had underwriting include track events without an impact on my rate.  Just thought I would share for those of you that care.

 

Could you PM me their contact information?

 

robert

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Guest lobster

Stupid question..  have you read the true fine print and ensured that you are covered, or just taking the sales guy's word for it?  (I ASSUME you're smarter than that. ;) )

 

 

Well, here's the deal, the broker spoke with the underwriters saying the would amend the exclusion/exemptions on the policy itself.  

I said great lets do this. 

 

They cancelled my policy about an hour ago because the senior underwriter said that weren't going to do that. 

 

 

It was to good to be true. 

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Well, here's the deal, the broker spoke with the underwriters saying the would amend the exclusion/exemptions on the policy itself.

I said great lets do this.

 

They cancelled my policy about an hour ago because the senior underwriter said that weren't going to do that.

 

 

It was to good to be true.

It figures. I was in your same shoes buying track insurance for every event which is why I bought an NC Miata. It has enough go to make it fun and i can live with the fact that I may have to walk away from it.
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Well, here's the deal, the broker spoke with the underwriters saying the would amend the exclusion/exemptions on the policy itself.

I said great lets do this.

 

They cancelled my policy about an hour ago because the senior underwriter said that weren't going to do that.

 

 

It was to good to be true.

Doh!
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Has anyone tried Haggarty? I got custom auto insurance through them to cover mods and opted out of track car coverage but get the impression it is something they do...

 

They do require the car to be on their list of interesting/rare cars

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Well, here's the deal, the broker spoke with the underwriters saying the would amend the exclusion/exemptions on the policy itself.  

I said great lets do this. 

 

They cancelled my policy about an hour ago because the senior underwriter said that weren't going to do that. 

 

 

It was to good to be true.

 

 

I am a State Farm agent in PA.     Most policies exclude any damage to a car which occurs on a race track. Technically Parade Laps could be not covered.  The language in a State Farm Policy is different.  It states that there is no collision coverage for damage that occurs while participating in a high speed or timed event.  That means  1) if you hit a deer on the track or break a windshield it would be covered because that's Comp not Collision  2) If you can prove that the event HP Drivers Education is not a race or high speed event then you could make the argument.  My guess is your argument is stronger because it is not timed and most event take great care to highlight the educational benefits of the event.   Not convinced you could win the argument, but I have debated the language with our underwriters and they admit it is ambiguous.  I buy the track insurance just to be safe. I became an instructor which means I typically drive for free or greatly reduced price.  I use those saving to pay for the insurance.  Just easier than the thought of debating an accident  after the fact.  Unlikely you will be able to get an underwriter to commit to coverage on a race track formally.   Also in PA, I find it unlikely that an insurance company can cancel you for inquiring about whether an exclusion is covered.  Not sure about your state, but I would fight that one.

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Well, here's the deal, the broker spoke with the underwriters saying the would amend the exclusion/exemptions on the policy itself.  

I said great lets do this. 

 

They cancelled my policy about an hour ago because the senior underwriter said that weren't going to do that. 

 

 

It was to good to be true. 

 

Has anyone tried Haggarty? I got custom auto insurance through them to cover mods and opted out of track car coverage but get the impression it is something they do...

 

They do require the car to be on their list of interesting/rare cars

 

 

Haggerty offers what they call STP insurance for dedicated track cars.  Stands for  Storage/Transport/Paddock,  if you have a street legal car with Comp and Collision you would be covered for this stuff so and STP is not necessary.  Haggerty offers through their website On Track insurance for HPDE events but its actually underwritten  through  RLI.   It is cheaper than Lockton and it appears that they charge on an event basis.  Therefore the rate is the same for a 1 day event and a 2 day,  so if I am running in a weekend event   I always buy the coverage.    Also if you have a $30k car and you insure it for $20k,  unless something really bad happens, you would get the $20k and still get to keep the car.   If you cant fix it you could strip it and sell off parts or reuse them on new car.

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State Farm changed their language recently. Standard language now excludes racetrack. Not really due to that change I switched to Amica (after 30 years with State Farm). Exclusions in the policy indicate it would cover a racetrack incident. Doesn't really matter for my racecar, but would matter for my wife's car when she tracks it.

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State Farm changed their language recently. Standard language now excludes racetrack. Not really due to that change I switched to Amica (after 30 years with State Farm). Exclusions in the policy indicate it would cover a racetrack incident. Doesn't really matter for my racecar, but would matter for my wife's car when she tracks it.

Could you post the language for us? Very interesting!

 

robert

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Guest lobster

State Farm changed their language recently. Standard language now excludes racetrack. Not really due to that change I switched to Amica (after 30 years with State Farm). Exclusions in the policy indicate it would cover a racetrack incident. Doesn't really matter for my racecar, but would matter for my wife's car when she tracks it.

 

 

yes do tell.   Track insurance even with RLI/haggerty/lockton/ontrack etc is pretty sporty

 

If their standard policy just has the language or lack of language we need ill jump ship no problem. 

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Guest lobster

I got their policy 

 

"

  1. Any vehicle, located inside a facility designed

    for racing, for the purpose of:

    1. Competing in; or

    2. Practicing or preparing for;

    any prearranged or organized racing or speed contest.

 

I would be curious as to what their definition of speed contest is.  

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I got their policy

 

"

 

 

 

  • Any vehicle, located inside a facility designed

    for racing, for the purpose of:

  • Competing in; or

  • Practicing or preparing for;

any prearranged or organized racing or speed contest.

 

I would be curious as to what their definition of speed contest is.

Well an HPDE isn't a contest and isn't timed so that may hold a candle in court.

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I don't have the policy with me but I think if you read on there is an exclusion to the exclusion which says something about drivers education.

 

Well an HPDE isn't a contest and isn't timed so that may hold a candle in court.

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Guest lobster

I copied that from their policy in PDF form.  There are no further exclusions or exemptions that pertain to drivers education that I saw. 

 

 

I wouldn't think that a DE would classify as "preparing for a speed contest"  

 

I would think that a test and tune, qualifying or something of that nature would be in the context of preparing for. 

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http://doi.nv.gov/uploadedFiles/doinvgov/_public-documents/Consumers/9828A.pdf

 

Check out Paragraph 19 on page 21.  Note they are defining an  exclusion, they are saying a covered vehicle is not covered in this instance.

 

19. ANY COVERED VEHICLE WHILE IT IS:
a. BEING PREPARED FOR, USED IN PRACTICE FOR, OR OPERATED IN ANY RACING CONTEST, SPEED CON-TEST, HILL-CLIMBING CONTEST, JUMPING CONTEST, OR ANY SIMILAR CONTEST; OR
b. ON A TRACK DESIGNED PRIMARILY FOR RACING OR HIGH SPEED DRIVING.
This exclusion (19.b.) does not apply if the vehicle is being used in connection with an activity other than racing, high speed driv-ing, or any type of competitive driving.

 

 

The thing that is different here is most policies simply state any damage on a race surface.  Here they leave the "does not apply"  if vehicle is not used in racing, high speed driving or competitive driving.  So here is the question is it a High Performance Driving Event or a High Performance Driver Education.   Our Track and PCA do not use term  HPDE but rather  DE (Driver education) ,  that language will help your argument that it should be covered.

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I don't have the paperwork anymore. I can't find the exact policy language on the internet, but this appears to be similar to what I recall.

 

Part a you could argue that a DE is not in preparation for a speed contest. It's the new part b that will get you not covered for a DE. The normal typeset (not all caps) wording gets you covered for driving you car to a NASCAR race at TMS and get in an accident in the parking lot (I have heard of some people- not in Texas- for getting denied for a fender bender in a racetrack parking lot as a spectator).

 

 

"14. FOR THE OWNERSHIP, MAINTENANCE, OR USE OF ANY VEHICLE WHILE IT IS: a. OFF PUBLIC ROADS AND BEING PREPARED FOR, USED IN PRACTICE FOR, OR OPERATED IN ANY RACING CONTEST, SPEED CONTEST, HILL- CLIMBING CONTEST, JUMPING CONTEST, OR ANY SIMILAR CONTEST; OR b. ON A TRACK DESIGNED PRIMARILY FOR RACING OR HIGH SPEED DRIVING. This exclusion (14.b.) does not apply if the vehicle is being used in connection with an activity other than racing, high speed driving, or any type of competitive driving; "

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I don't have the paperwork anymore. I can't find the exact policy language on the internet, but this appears to be similar to what I recall.

 

Part a you could argue that a DE is not in preparation for a speed contest. It's the new part b that will get you not covered for a DE. The normal typeset (not all caps) wording gets you covered for driving you car to a NASCAR race at TMS and get in an accident in the parking lot (I have heard of some people- not in Texas- for getting denied for a fender bender in a racetrack parking lot as a spectator).

 

 

"14. FOR THE OWNERSHIP, MAINTENANCE, OR USE OF ANY VEHICLE WHILE IT IS: a. OFF PUBLIC ROADS AND BEING PREPARED FOR, USED IN PRACTICE FOR, OR OPERATED IN ANY RACING CONTEST, SPEED CONTEST, HILL- CLIMBING CONTEST, JUMPING CONTEST, OR ANY SIMILAR CONTEST; OR b. ON A TRACK DESIGNED PRIMARILY FOR RACING OR HIGH SPEED DRIVING. This exclusion (14.b.) does not apply if the vehicle is being used in connection with an activity other than racing, high speed driving, or any type of competitive driving; "

I had this same argument with an underwriter and they admit its ambiguous but the burden of proof is on insured.  Anything that has a clock or a contest is clearly not covered.   But the question is "is it a HP Driving Event or a Performance Driver Education" .  The claims adjuster said if presented with this case,  he would request literature published by the hosting organization. 

 

 

From Chin Track Days Website:

Our emphasis is on FUN and skill training, not racing. In our non-competition events, the gentleman and lady sports car driver can practice and learn new advanced driving techniques. Entry level drivers recieve high-quality instruction on high-performance driving skills. If you are already an experienced track driver, you may be exempt from instruction, and enjoy generous, high-quality track time. All training and driving is done in a low-stress, non-competition environment. There is no racing, time-trials, or contests at Chin Track Days events. Events are defined as driver's education activities, and are governed accordingly. We welcome ALL enthusiasts; there is no limitation to a particular marque of car.

 

I think you can make a case they should pay!!

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