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Holley Hydramat


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15 replies to this topic

#1
Arro

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I couldn't find any discussion on this board about this product.  I was wondering if anyone had any experience or comments about it. Seems pretty legit and could satisfy a very real need for those cars that suffer from fuel starvation.

 

https://www.holley.c...stems/hydramat/

 

demo video:

 

https://www.youtube....h?v=yfE1v65fNZI



#2
Captain Buddha

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Looks pretty cool! I have a sump in my fuel cell for this very reason. That may be an even better solution.


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#3
HispanicPanic

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I need one of these bad. Only problem is they're already sold out. 



#4
joesurf79

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Resurrecting this from the dead - has anyone here tested one with favorable results?

 

The FRS / BRZ / GT86 platform is prone to starvation when exposed to long left hand sweepers, and while a surge tank is a tried and true solution, one of these in the tank would be less cost and hassle if it works...There's a version that readily adapts to the typical 11mm input fitting on many fuel pumps. I'm super tempted to try one!



#5
JBJones

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GSpeed was going to try a Hydramat in Dave's car but didn't think it would be useful without having a way to secure the hydramat in the bottom of the tank. After a good bit of research, they ended up abandoning the idea and going with a different solution.



#6
joesurf79

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GSpeed was going to try a Hydramat in Dave's car but didn't think it would be useful without having a way to secure the hydramat in the bottom of the tank. After a good bit of research, they ended up abandoning the idea and going with a different solution.


That's good to know Jason. Holley does have a mount kit for non metallic tanks. But I'd be surprised if the epoxy provided with it would stand up for long periods of time.

Locating it in the right position in the tank would be key, and affixing it as important. If it was attached to the pump and locked on with the retaining ring, I imagine it would stay in place

#7
JBJones

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I believe their plan was to use some really strong magnets but I don't think they ever found an epoxy to affix the magnets to the mat they thought could withstand long term use in E85.



#8
joesurf79

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I believe their plan was to use some really strong magnets but I don't think they ever found an epoxy to affix the magnets to the mat they thought could withstand long term use in E85.

Holley has a kit with some strong magnets attached to studs now. Thread the stud on top of the magnet through the hydramat mount holes at each corner, and use a really strong magnet on the other side of the tank. Even epoxy the magnets in place on the outside of the tank. That way there is no epoxy exposure to E85 to worry about.

 

I am thinking I am going to give this a shot if it all looks like there is room, after some careful measuring this weekend. I have to pull my fuel pump basket anyway to replace the seals. After installing the ineffective Velox trap door flap, I must have gacked that big oring. Big time gas fumes in the car last event.



#9
Bruce

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Had one. Works great. Had it in a cell so the foam kept it in place. Could get an additional 2 gallons (about 10%) out of the cell over a trap door system.

#10
joesurf79

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Glad to hear that Bruce! After measuring though, there isn't really room to stuff it in the factory tank under the factory fuel pump basket like I was hoping.

So now I'm looking at a surge tank setup. Basic, single pump-in-tall-skinny-tank setup, fed by the factory in-tank pump. The BRZ fuel system is returnless though, so I need to figure out a fuel tight way to run a return line from the surge tank back into the tank.

I'm thinking I could just drill a hole in the pump basket "lid" for the in-tank pump and use an AN fuel cell bulk head fitting with the included PTFE crush washers? Then the return from the surge tank would just dump back onto the in-tank pump too.

#11
JBJones

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What I always  wanted to do but needed a solution quickly and didn't pursue, is running a fuel pump in the passenger side basket that feeds the driver side basket. I have heard of several others doing this but was never able to get details from them. This keeps everything in the tank, which is nice from a safety perspective, but not sure how challenging it is to implement. With your love of tinkering, might be something to explore. 

 

You are also welcome to come check out my surge system to see how GSPeed set it up. 



#12
joesurf79

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What I always  wanted to do but needed a solution quickly and didn't pursue, is running a fuel pump in the passenger side basket that feeds the driver side basket. I have heard of several others doing this but was never able to get details from them. This keeps everything in the tank, which is nice from a safety perspective, but not sure how challenging it is to implement. With your love of tinkering, might be something to explore. 

 

You are also welcome to come check out my surge system to see how GSPeed set it up. 

I've thought about that as well, might be worth looking into!

 

Thanks man, I'll for sure want to take a look. I am looking at the Fitech Single pump Surge tank, that has an internal pressure regulator in the tank already, set to 58 psi. Makes it clean, no extra fuel connections and lines to / from an external FPR, etc. If I go that route, I just need to figure out how to have the return line get fuel back into the tank. No matter how I slice it, I'll need to put a hole for a fitting in the factory setup, and have it be a sealed connection. Thinking AN bulkhead fitting, but I'll need Buna-N or Viton washers to seal it all up.  

 

Are you running a rear firewall in your car? How are you isolating your surge tank?



#13
HispanicPanic

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Someone forwarded this thread to me and asked i respond.

 

I have a hydramat in my Evo. Tuned to full-tilt with bolt ons and a stock turbo on 93.  At the end of a normal session, i'd fuel starve on most tracks. I'd usually no-throttle through the offending turns last 2 laps of the session.

 

Had to get creative with some plumbing and modify the fuel return system so that it dumps fuel ONTO the hydramat instead of inside my normal fuel pump hangar. I've got pics somewhere of my install, i'll have to find them.  but i cut a large hole in my fuel pump hangar to route hoses from the hydramat to my walbro 255. I'm using a Radium Siphon kit and bypassing the OEM one as its built into the fuel pump hangar. The OEM siphon system uses a venturi on the fuel return to literally pull fuel from the right side of the tank. The siphon kit comes with a handfull of orifice sizes that you'll need to experiment with to make sure that your Fuel pressure is as normal as possible (unless you've got an adjustible FPR). For you turbo folk, this means a tune check as you'll probably be off a few PSI which will affect your trims slightly. Theoretically, a smaller orifice will increase the velocity of the flow, which will pull more fuel from the right side of the tank, but from dicking around it doesn't seem to make an appreciable difference (i still starve on the same turns at the same fuel level). So i recommend using the orifice that will require the least amount of fucking-about with your fuel trims.

 

For those pushing 600+ hp, be wary.  Reports in the evo community show that there are fueling issues brought about by the 1/2 inch fitting on the mats. It is suspected that the 1/2 fitting is limiting fuel flow which can't support large power on these boosted 2 liters. Not sure if they make a 5/8 fitting mat yet in a large enough size.  Also, i had to use a 90 degree elbow coming out the mat to clear the pump hangar, which converts the NPT fitting on the map to the barb required for the rest of the fuel system. I also had to use a Radium fuel pump adapter kit to convert the Walbro fuel inlet into a Barb so i can connect to the hydramat, as the mat is now your fuel filter.

 

Overall, the mat does exactly what it's supposed to. I'm having a weird fuel anomaly but i think its unrelated to the mat (weird lean spot at 4k RPM that i'm tuning around). I still Fuel starve if my fuel gets around 5/8 tank, but it buys me enough time to get through a session now. I'd usually use 4+ gallons per session as long as there's no traffic, which puts me at 3/4 tank at the end.

 

Next step is to add a 2nd mat on the right side of the tank with a low pressure in-tank pump.  This would solve the problem 100% as long as the flow of the 2nd pump can outflow the main fuel pump. Need to figure out the best way to wire said pump. Then i can run the tank down to 1/4 without starving (i hope). 

 

 

Other notes: turns out my tank (its metal) is magnetic enough for the magnets that come with the mat. They're really strong and will survive any kind of forced slosh without movement. I also purchased the magnets for use with a plastic tank just in case. Those things are so damn strong that if they touch, you're NOT getting them apart. Seriously, i haven't been able to get them apart. So, they're definitely strong enough if you have a plastic tank and you're worried about it. 

 

Parts used:

 

https://www.holley.c...ts/parts/16-106

 

https://www.holley.c...ts/parts/16-204

 

https://www.highflow...-dimension.html

 

http://www.radiumaut...p-Kit-P760.aspx

 

https://frsport.com/...ZhoCROcQAvD_BwE

 

A handfull of hose clamps to secure hoses on barbs

And a handfull of zipties to secure all the hoses where they need to be :) 



#14
HispanicPanic

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These are the only pictures i can find on my computer right now... i've got more stashed on another device somewhere.

 

 

Pic below shows the adapter on the walbro 255 pump to convert the inlet to a barb.

 

 

5bef8adb5e55f_20150926_132552_55c1943f65

 

 

 

The little magnet fastners are great.

 

 

5bef8b2451000_20150926_125836_55c1943f65



#15
TerraVista

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Hey nice pics! ;) They look familiar! I was the OP on EvoM ab the hydramat. I had the same issues as you HispanicPanic, still had starvation issues around the track and had to refill every session. 

 

I eventually started having problems below a quarter tank when daily driving that I thought was from the Hydramat.

 

I bought a used fuel bucket and pulled it out, and it turned out that it I had a bad harness connection to the pump. My guess is that the gas was helping electrical conduction, and when it ran low it exposed that burnt connector to air, and it started throwing fits.

 

Right now it's sitting in a box on a shelf, I suppose one day I'll toss it in the CRX and see if we can get a 2hr stint out of it.

 

I'm not 100% sold that it works as well as shown in the marketing videos, at least not in the application I used it in the EVO. I think just using a transfer pump on the siphon line, plumbed directly to the bucket would work better.

 

Let me know if/when get that second pump working, im curious how to get the wires set up safely through the fuel tank.

 

 

But..... my EVO got rear ended last September, took months to get it fixed. Then shortly after, the ACD/AYC pump failed, as they all do. The day after my $500 used pump showed up in the mail, I had a shift fork magnet fall off into the trans. I haven't had time to pull the trans, so I have a $20k paper weight in the garage right now. I think I might just fix it and sell it, to be honest.

 

Its a badass track car, but I think I get just as much enjoyment flogging my CRX around the twisties, for far less cost.

 

 

About your 4k lean spot, how factory is your fuel system? I know guys with aftermarket rails need a fuel pulsation damper, i dunno if that might be your issue. 



#16
HispanicPanic

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Hey nice pics! ;) They look familiar! I was the OP on EvoM ab the hydramat. I had the same issues as you HispanicPanic, still had starvation issues around the track and had to refill every session. 

 

I eventually started having problems below a quarter tank when daily driving that I thought was from the Hydramat.

 

I bought a used fuel bucket and pulled it out, and it turned out that it I had a bad harness connection to the pump. My guess is that the gas was helping electrical conduction, and when it ran low it exposed that burnt connector to air, and it started throwing fits.

 

Right now it's sitting in a box on a shelf, I suppose one day I'll toss it in the CRX and see if we can get a 2hr stint out of it.

 

I'm not 100% sold that it works as well as shown in the marketing videos, at least not in the application I used it in the EVO. I think just using a transfer pump on the siphon line, plumbed directly to the bucket would work better.

 

Let me know if/when get that second pump working, im curious how to get the wires set up safely through the fuel tank.

 

 

But..... my EVO got rear ended last September, took months to get it fixed. Then shortly after, the ACD/AYC pump failed, as they all do. The day after my $500 used pump showed up in the mail, I had a shift fork magnet fall off into the trans. I haven't had time to pull the trans, so I have a $20k paper weight in the garage right now. I think I might just fix it and sell it, to be honest.

 

Its a badass track car, but I think I get just as much enjoyment flogging my CRX around the twisties, for far less cost.

 

 

About your 4k lean spot, how factory is your fuel system? I know guys with aftermarket rails need a fuel pulsation damper, i dunno if that might be your issue. 

 

 

Oh hey TerraVista! Yeah your post influenced me to go this route instead of a surge tank!

 

My lean spot is an odd one.... It has actually been there for a while and my previous tuner had to tune around it. I've taken apart the rear fuel system a billion times and everything looks good there.... I'm now thinking it might be a weird blockage in the fuel rail. The original motor melted a piston cause i wasn't paying attention to my engine temp at MSRC in late July. Oops. Got a used engine delivered on a crate and the problem i think has been there ever since in various different ways.  Started off as some knock with spirited daily driving, backed off the timing seemed to fix it.  Went and got a retune and for some reason the injectors were hitting max duty cycle at 5.5k rpm and going lean.  Replaced injectors with ID1000's and now i have a 4k lean spot. Fuel system is as follows: ID1000 injectors, stock fuel rail, stock fuel lines, stock FPR, Walbro 255, hydramat setup as described above, Radium siphon kit.